Is Sam Alito On His Way Out?

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It's an old joke. When I argued men, I argues against two beautiful ladies like this, they're going to have the last word. She spoke not elegantly, but with unmistakable clarity. She said, I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet or for next. Hello, and welcome back to strict scrutiny, your podcast about the Supreme Court and the legal culture that surrounds it. Where are your host today, I'm Melissa Murray. And I'm Kate Shaw. And we are in our final week of the long stretch between the January and February Supreme Court sittings. So this is a stretch in which there were no Supreme Court arguments and actually no opinions from the court. So- Must be nice. It has been. Quiet quitting. Okay. For them and for us, I think we've all enjoyed this last week and this coming week of our collective respite before the court returns both to issuing opinions and adhering arguments. But there has been, even in the absence of SCOTUS, a ton of legal news that we're going to cover today. That's coming out of the executive branch, out of the lower federal courts, even out of a Congress, which seems to be maybe... Wait, did we get one? We got a Congress? It's a little too soon to say for sure, but there are definitely indications that we might have on Article 1 that's doing things. Is it a pre-congress? It might be. You take it before the actual Congress? Like, yeah, or a fetal Congress. Okay. I'm not sure. I think we will see. But it was showing signs of, you know, actually interest in overseeing the executive branch and communicating with the public. So we're going to cover all of that. But before we get to this week's news, I'm going to preview one of my new favorite things. It's a mystery called the case of the possibly retiring justice. And I have some breaking clues. So. Not entirely ready to call it breaking news, but as Leah noted in our last episode, a number of clues have emerged over the past couple of weeks, pointing to the possibility that friend of the pod, when Samuel A. Samuel Alito, may be preparing to hang up his robes and turn full time to pursuing his passions, right-wing news, flags, general conservative grievance, and Wagner. Let's enumerate the clues. First, Samuel Alito recently celebrated 20 years on the court at the end of January. And ladies, I know you felt every one of those 20 years in your uterus, but it was just 20 years. Actually, not a long time when you really think about it, but it felt like a million years. That is usually a very good milestone on which to retire. Like a round number, you can market. I don't even know what the gift is for 20 years. It's definitely not paper. It's like a metal of some sort. But that's a good time. Yeah. Okay.

The second clue is that the signs are not looking great for the Republicans in the midterms. So they have their big, beautiful, disastrous bill that has made everyone poorer. The eggs are still expensive. Nobody has health care. And they don't seem to care about it. That... means that they may very well lose the House of Representatives and possibly the Senate. And if they lose the Senate, that obviously makes it so much harder for the president to get through his SCOTUS Fetus nominee. That means if you retire before you lose the Senate, then you make the whole glide path so much easier for getting in your preferred candidate, do it before the midterms changes everything. So that's the second clue. The third clue is that... This is obviously someone who wants to ensure that he is replaced by a like-minded successor, right? So you got to do this while the iron is hot, while the Senate is in position. And then the final clue is that... The publication date for his forthcoming book, so ordered, which as Leah noted last week, is going to be published during the first week of October term, 26. And that is usually a time when sitting justices are quite busy, which means it's not exactly a great time to release your new book if you want to promote said book. So... I will just drop that. I will also note a very fawning op-ed by former clerk with cases pending at the Supreme Court right now, Ben Aguonaga, who talked about the decency, the core decency and goodness of his former boss. All of this may suggest that we are just in commemoration mode. 20th anniversary has come, and we are just lauding the great man as one does. But personally, I think this feels a little bit like the right wing ecosystem kicking into high gear. What do you think, Kate? It does feel like that. And I will say that we are not the only ones to have noticed that evidence seems to be mounting. So, friend of the pod, Ellie Mistal, penned a column last week in the nation magazine, titled, Is Samuel Alito preparing to disrobe? Amazing title. So let's raise right past that image. I don't want it. Image is terrible. Zero out of ten. But. Good. Very clever. Yes, absolutely. We salute you, our friend. So we will just note that if there is an announcement, if our speculation in Ellie's is right, it is possible that it could come very soon. So many, although not all SCOTUS retirement announcements come at the end of the term, but there's no requirement that that be the case. And in fact, if the kind of. Electoral math that Melissa was alluding to is part of the calculus here, then sooner would make a lot of sense. So thinking about a few recent retirements, Justice Stevens announced his retirement in April, Justice Souter in May, and Justice Breyer announced his retirement at the end of January in 2022, providing when he did that his retirement wouldn't take effect until the end of the term, assuming that his successor had been nominated and confirmed by then. He was, of course, succeeded by Ketanji Brown Jackson, who replaced him after the end of that term. And kind of given that the Senate...

it is unlikely to want to focus on a SCOTUS nomination and confirmation hearings during the fall of an election year. It feels like they would want to do it sooner rather than later. I presume he would do something similar to Justice Breyer, make the retirement effective at the end of the term, and contingent on confirmation of a successor. But it could be, you know, just a matter of weeks if we are right in our speculation. All right. So this all begs the question, listeners, who might America's next top justice be? Right now, we are just going to do a lightning round of the folks we think are likely high on the list of possible replacements. Not necessarily because their jurisprudence has been so eye-popping, although some cases it has been, but because they have really been putting themselves out front. They are true Meredith Gray, pick-me candidates. And of course, we will revisit all of this if, in fact, there is an announcement. But just to give you a flavor of what might be in the offing, let's go through them. First step. My first pick me is Judge Andy Oldham of the Fifth Circuit. As we've noted, he has really brought some thirsty energy to the Fifth Circuit, and he's been doing so for some time. He's also staked out positions that are so extreme that even the Supreme Court feels compelled to say, easy, tiger, slow this down. Keep smacking him down. These decisions that have literally required the court to intervene include his non-delegation doctrine opinion in Consumers Research Council, his opinion striking down a ghost gun regulation in Pam Bondi v. Vanderstock, and the flavored tobacco case, FDA versus wages and Red Lion, in which he was unanimously reversed. They call that a bench slap. He also wrote a particularly hackish opinion suggesting that President Joe Biden was too senile, to pardon people. Yes, really he did. He's also 47, which means he is exactly the right age. And if passed his prologue, he is also an Samuel Alito clerk. So there is some nice symmetry here. And our friend Mark Joseph Stern at Slate actually had a piece on the prospect of an Oldham candidacy last year. So we recommend that to you as well. Another entrant, also from the Fifth Circuit, is a perennial favorite in these stakes, and that is, of course, one Judge Jim Ho. He is a Thomas Clerk and, as you know, a perennial pick-mee conservative who's been on this bench for years. He's been a huge proponent of the made-up major questions doctrine, including a case that sought to blow up the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's nuclear waste storage, because obviously, just letting any fool store nuclear... way sounds like a perfectly good idea. Picking Judge Ho might give the Democrats an opening to focus on corruption and billionaire benefactors because, as we know, there have been ties to both Clarence Thomas and Harlan Crow that Judge Ho has been privy to. That might be a mark against him, but here's the rub. Judge Ho would also be the first Asian American ever nominated to the court, and that might give the Republicans some fodder if the Democrats came out hard against him. Also, Judge Ho is in his 50s, so I don't know, seems like on the older side. Like, it would probably be better if he was 15.

What do you think? They do want to install a justice who will serve for decades and I think probably under 50 if they can. I think the justice should be able to drive though. That's a line in the sand for me. I mean, like legally able. I in New York so many people just can't. So who knows. But so moving on to a slightly younger potential nominee, Judge Eileen Cannon of the Southern District of Florida. So if you remember classified documents in bathrooms and ballrooms, Cannon really needs no introduction. Her pro-Trump rulings in the Mar-a-Lago episode, right, which involved Trump being criminally indicted for taking and retaining documents following the conclusion of his first presidency were truly jaw-dropping. This is a patronage administration, and Cannon has displayed the kind of... loyalty that would make Roscoe Conkling proud. You have to see Death by Lightning if you haven't. That's a deep cut. Wow. Proud of you. And she's not a New Yorker. She's a Floridian. But anyway, she delivered for Trump and Spades in that case. And it feels like it now might be her turn. And she is on the younger end. So I think she is definitely high on the list. One thing that might cut against her. I think it's going to be a big leap from the district court to the Supreme Court. I think she has to make a pit stop at the 11th Circuit. Totally possible. Hmm. Okay, so another possibility, speaking of the courts of appeals, Judge Naomi Rao of the D.C. Circuit. You know, she was on... short lists during the first Trump term. She has definitely delivered some pretty outlandish rulings in favor of Trump since being installed in the D.C. Circuit, including the contempt case out of Judge Bozberg's chambers. Still, you know, you hate to say it, but I don't actually see things breaking her way. Do we hate to say it? No, that was complete sarcasm. I don't hate to say it. I love to say it. I mean, although, look, I think she probably would be less insane than some of the people on the list. So, you know, hard to know exactly what to root for here. But in some ways, like, I find her. outlandish rulings harder to swallow because I do feel like on some level she knows better like she was once a scholar of administrative law who wrote some perfectly reasonable things and she no longer is that. But 53. She's probably older than they want. And I also do think she is a lady, right? Which could, you know, so is Eileen Cannon. I'm not sure that's a strike against her. But I think that actually with Rousam, some GOP senators, this was at least the kind of scuttle. But last time she was in the mix, was that she's not conservative enough despite her dogged efforts on the bench in recent years to prove them wrong. And I'm not sure she has successfully shaken that concern. I don't know. She's done a pretty good job of rehabbing her credentials. She's tried, yeah. She definitely has. Any other new and up-and-comers you want to flag? Let me just tick through a few. Judge Patrick Bumetee of the Ninth Circuit, Judge Lawrence Van Dyke, also at the ninth. Oh, he's the video dissent. In the gun case, yep, that's him. I mean, that's a way to get noticed. Stanford Stormtrooper, Stuart Kyle Duncan.

Justin Walker of the D.C. Circuit, Greg Kassas, also of the D.C. I literally thought there was a judge named Stanford Stormtrooper. I'm like, that's a very interesting name. I've never heard of him. Kyle, Kyle Duncan. Okay. Very sort of like outside possibility, but throw in the mix, newbie gen mascot of the Third Circuit. And what about? an erstwhile U.S. attorney, Alina Habba, Lindsey Halligan. Oh, I love that these two might actually get a Senate confirmation hearing. That would be novel and unprecedented. Amazing. That's not happening. I just wanted to put them on the list. All right. You just want, like, that was just literally a shift and giggles. I just wanted to remind people that these are lawyers given serious jobs in this administration. Well, Kate, I'm surprised that you did not mention one Emil Beauvais of the Third Circuit. This is, of course, the former Trump henchman turned DOJ number three, turned Third Circuit Judge, because, of course, who is probably best known through the reports of whistleblower Orez Ravini, who reported that during the alien enemies litigation, quote, Bovet stated. that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts, fuck you and would ignore any such order. Ooh, that's going to be spicy in the confirmation hearings. Tell us, sir, about your relationship with DOJ. I will say that Judge Beauvais has so far avoided getting pulled into the contempt proceedings before Judge Bozberg. Maybe that's because he's also a judge right now. That could probably be part of it. But... It is still wild that he is on the bench and wilder still that he likely will be on the short list if Samuel Alito does retire. Indeed. Obviously, listeners, we will have a more refined list if and when an announcement is made. It probably will be made via a leak to Politico. So stay tuned for that. I hope the Chief Justice will be enforcing those NDAs rigorously, as was promised. See, of course, the leak could come either from the court or from the White House. And John Roberts doesn't have jurisdiction over the White House staffers because, you know, typically there's a letter that gets delivered to the White House. But yeah, I agree with you most. That's probably a leak rather than an announcement that is the way we will find out. I think so. Strict scrutiny is brought to you by Quince. Quince is all about elevated essentials that feel effortless. It's also designed for layering and mixing so that each piece helps build a timeless wardrobe made to last. And with all the combinations that are possible, you can make just a few pieces go a long way. And with versatile silhouettes and thoughtful details, they're the kind of styles you wear again and again. You all know Melissa's Quince Pilled. Well, here's some of what I appreciate about quince. They've got the wardrobe staples with quality that's made to last.

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All right, let's turn to the news. And as I said at the outset, there has been a lot. We're going to start with Minnesota. And we will also cover various developments in courts and the executive branch that are kind of broadly related to the administration's brutal immigration enforcement strategy. We will then cover some other developments in courts and the executive branch. And again, wonder of wonders, the Congress. All right, first step, ICE out of Minnesota. Listeners on Thursday, Borders Arena Tom Homan announced that the federal government siege of Minnesota, what they were calling Operation Metro Surge, is ending. Now wait, I have questions. Is this a not so fast I will believe it when I see it moment? Or is this actually cause for celebration? Or maybe it's both. It does feel really important to note that the ordinary citizens of the state of Minnesota have driven off a paramilitary force occupying Minneapolis, although they've obviously paid for this in literal blood. But we should note that the organizing around everything from warning whistles and networks to mutual aid has actually been amazing and it has kept so many people safe. We don't know yet whether ICE is gone or what the aftermath from Minnesota will be, but we know that attorneys are working on this and that there are still enormous numbers of Minnesotans who have been snatched off the streets. Some of them are actually citizens and legal residents. Some of them have been sent to Texas while they have release orders pending. So none of this is over for them, but it is an amazing development that ICE will be leaving Minnesota. Yeah, and an amazing victory for ordinary Minnesotans holding the line on the Constitution and the rule of law. And on that topic, I wanted to mention a moment from the Olympics last week that makes clear that some athletes understand the Constitution much better than some of our very most esteemed jurists. So one of the members of the U.S. curling team, who also happens to be a lawyer, said in a press conference, quote, We have a Constitution, and it allows us freedom of the press and freedom of speech protects us from unreasonable searches and seizures and makes it so we have to, you know, have probable cause to be pulled over. And what's happening in Minnesota is wrong. There's no shades of gray. End quote. So I heard that last week, and I really hoped that Brett Kavanaugh was watching and listening because I found it to be proof positive that it is possible to love both sports and the Constitution. So yeah. Love that moment, and it is just sort of more evidence. It has been really clear in this timeline that the people are doing a much better job defending core constitutional values than our institutions are right now. I love an attorney slash curler. Like more of that, please. Okay. Next topic, detention policy. In the last episode, we talked about the detention policy that this administration has been trotting out and which has been rejected by just about every court except the Fifth Circuit. Under this new detention policy, the government took the view that anyone who has not been lawfully admitted to the United States, i.e. anyone who may have crossed the border and then stayed in the United States, who the government was then attempting to deport now had to be detained. And we should say...

That's not the way this normally happened. Even if you had crossed the border and were undocumented, you weren't necessarily immediately detained while deportation proceedings proceeded against you. The group of people who are included in this detention order includes people who have been here literally for decades. And that detention means that... they are being held without the chance of a bond hearing. No administration has ever taken that kind of hardline position before. It literally would not be possible to detain everyone in those circumstances and given the absolutely deplorable conditions of immigration detention and the fact that the administration seemingly wants to deport. any non-white individual, the mandatory detention policy seems like yet another effort to continue this campaign of terror against groups that the administration disfavors. Yeah. But it seems that as bad as that was, what Melissa was just describing, even that wasn't enough because the government has also trotted out a separate initiative. It's calling Operation Paris in Minnesota. And this is a program that does not just target those who were not lawfully admitted when they entered the country. It targets some individuals who were lawfully admitted and get this. refugees. So the goal of the program literally seems to be to arrest refugees, people who waited, sometimes for years, passing multiple background rounds of screenings and background checks, until they were lawfully admitted to the United States by our government. When someone is admitted as a refugee, just like to give a little background, they are vetted. very thoroughly and subsequently allowed to seek a status adjustment, which often means applying for a green card. That green card is not processed until they have been here after their admission as a refugee for a year. And the government has trotted out this new legal theory that the Refugee Act of 1980 allows or possibly even requires they seem still to be working out the kind of anti-immigrant kinks of their theory, but either allows or requires the arrest of any refugee who has been here for a year and has not yet received their green card. But the green card process can take a long time. It is also outside of the control of the individual who has pursued that status adjustment. And it is in the federal government's control. So the upshot of this theory could be that if you're a refugee, you have 365 days of freedom in the United States, and then you can or will be pursued starting on day 366. It is absolutely horrific. And because it's absolutely horrific, it's being challenged in court. The case is called UHA and Advocates for Human Rights versus Pam Bondi. The plaintiffs recently obtained a temporary restraining order, a TRO, at the end of January, that puts a stop to the policy for now. The government has moved to stay the TRO, so to dissolve it, so that they can continue the policy. The district court has rejected this request. There will be an evidentiary hearing in the case this week. And again, we just want to emphasize.

This is not the same issue as the broader detention policy that is now before the Fifth Circuit. So completely separate kind of thing. Last Thursday night, we also got a temporary restraining order, TRO, out of Minnesota, and a right to counsel challenge involving the Whipple Detention Facility in Minneapolis. This was a Fifth Amendment challenge, and the district court found that the plaintiffs had a high likelihood of success on the merits. It is a very, very powerful opinion. The court found that the federal government, when devising its Operation Metro Surge strategy, had, quote, fail to provide for the constitutional rights of its civil detainees. The court continued, the Constitution does not permit the government to arrest thousands of individuals and then disregard their constitutional rights because it would be too challenging to honor those rights. Seems true. The judge, Judge Nancy Brazel, ordered the administration to immediately begin providing detainees with access to phones, including within an hour of their arrival at the facility. She also generally required ongoing access to phones and attorneys with rooms in which they could meet with their clients, and she barred out-of-state transfers during the first 72 hours of any detention. So that was an incredibly powerful and also very practically important decision. And there was another really important immigration decision last week from the chambers of one Judge Bozberg, who we've already mentioned in this hour. Judge Bozberg is the chief judge of the D.C. District Court. And on Thursday, he issued an opinion directing the administration to provide some of the individuals deported under the Alien Enemies Act many months ago with due process. So yes, these are still ongoing proceedings related to the administration's deportations back in March when those individuals were flown to the Seacot facility. in El Salvador in flagrant violation of Boseberg's own orders. Since then, those individuals were transferred from Seacot to Venezuela. Some of them have left Venezuela. And the ones who are outside of Venezuela are the individuals that this new order covers. So the judge orders the administration to facilitate the return of these individuals to the United States so they can be given the process that they are owed. They don't need to be released. They can remain in United States custody, but they are owed due process to evaluate the claims that led to their initial expulsion. And the opinion actually is careful not to order the return of individuals still in Venezuela, given the sensitive foreign policy concerns that such an order would trigger. I want to quote a little bit from this opinion. So Judge Bosberg wrote, quote, it is worth emphasizing that this situation would never have arisen had the government simply afforded plaintiffs their constitutional rights before initially deporting them. True. Yeah. True. And again, just... You can't believe it has to be said. Why the fuck does this have to be said? But the tone of... I just like, I really respected both kind of like the...

kind of moral and constitutional gravity and seriousness of that ruling and the one that we were just talking about out of Minnesota regarding that Whipple detention facility. But they're not like histrionic at all, the opinions. They're just like very calm and measured, but extremely forceful. No, it's sort of like, hey guys, I don't know if you know this, but there's this document. It's called the Constitution. And it says pretty clearly and unequivocally that you have to do these things. Have you read it? The answer, of course, is no. And I think that's what makes it such an amazing and powerful ruling. This is just a judge deciding the cases before him under the law and the Constitution. And he's being very clear that the Constitution itself is clear. Just because the news cycle has moved on from this, just because the administration has decided it's done with its little experiment with a Salvadoran torture prison and the Alien Enemies Act doesn't mean we're just going to sweep this under the rug. Let's come back to it. acknowledge that this administration has violated the rights of these people in flagrant, flagrant ways. Yeah. And it's also like it is what he says on the substance here is totally in line with what the Supreme Court has said, which is that due process still applies even in the Alien Enemies Act context. And I just think it's also sort of doubly impressive that this is Bozberg, just like... methodically doing the work because, look, he's already been mandamus. They are trying to impeach him. Trump and Pam Bondi have repeatedly attacked him personally. Like, judges do not love any of this, but he is not going to be cowed into not doing his job. And we salute that. All right. Speaking of people just doing their jobs whom we salute, let's talk about some of the other folks who are holding the line on this document we call the Constitution. Last week, a federal grand jury. refused to indict six members of Congress that the Department of Justice had tried to charge with seditious conspiracy. That is the same charge that E. Stewart Rhodes was convicted of and then later was pardoned by the president. The whole seditious conspiracy charge was animated by a video that these six members of Congress made reminding members of the military that they are actually not permitted to follow illegal orders. Let's roll a clip from that video. This administration is pitting our uniform military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens. Like us, you all swore an oath. To protect and defend this Constitution. Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad, but from right here at home. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. FYI listeners, the individual speaking includes Senator Mark Kelly, Senator Elissa Slotkin, Representative Chris Deluzio, Representative Maggie Goodlander, Representative Chrissy Hulahan, and Representative Jason Crow. There was also a related development in the D.C. District Court. In addition to trying to criminally indict these members of Congress, who are former military and intelligence officers, Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, has initiated disciplinary proceedings against Mark Kelly, the Arizona Senator and retired Navy captain. I think we should probably note that it seems like...

Kelly himself is really kind of a burr under the administration's saddle. I don't know if that's because as a veteran, as a senator from a swing state, Arizona, he might be in a particularly good position to challenge whoever is the successor to this administration. He's going to put that out there. He's also the husband of Gabby Giffords. She was, of course, a representative from Arizona who was shot in the head and has become a powerful voice for gun safety laws. These proceedings that Secretary Pete Hegseth initiated included a letter of censure and the initiation of a review that could result in a reduction in Kelly's retirement rank as well as his pension. Kelly has filed a challenge to those proceedings, arguing that they violate both the First Amendment and federal statutes relating to the Department of Defense. That's what the Department of War used to be. And a federal judge emphatically agreed, granting Kelly a preliminary injunction. Let me just also quote from that opinion. It's really been quite a week for banger opinions from various district court judges. Quote, rather than trying to shrink the First Amendment liberties of retired service members, Secretary Pete Hegseth, and his fellow defendants might reflect and be grateful for the wisdom and expertise that retired service members have brought to public discussions and debate on military matters in our nation over the past 250 years. If so, they will more fully appreciate why the founding fathers made free speech the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights. So I was talking about how I thought. sober and powerful. Some of the earlier district court opinions we were discussing were. This one was a bit different in tone, Judge Leon, the author of the opinion, caught some heat online for his liberal use of exclamation marks. I think there were over a dozen. Yeah, it's just punctuation. But, you know, the tone, too. Like, it was, it was heated, I would say. But, like, the substance was really powerful. And I just thought it is, there are so many moments in this kind of hellacious timeline where you kind of wonder if you are. Crazy. Like, if your reaction to the administration's reaction to the video that we just played a clip from was that this seems insane that the Secretary of War would be targeting and trying to strip the pension of a decorated veteran who is also United States Senator, and, you know, maybe there is the political overlay that Melissa was just alluding to, but that that seems. insane, especially where the ostensible predicate for this targeting is obviously protected First Amendment activity. It is just nice to know that Judge Leon agrees with you. This is completely insane. And, you know, the opinion sort of notes with hope that Pete Hegseth might like course correct. Record scratch. All right. Slash narrator voice. Like he did not course correct because. Pete Hegseth took to social media basically right away, pledging to appeal and insisting, quote, sedition is sedition captain addressing, I presume, retired a captain to Mark Kelly. Spell it, sir. Spell sedition. I mean, he went to Princeton. He can probably spell sedition. I'll believe it wants to see it. One more important ruling also out of D.C. And this one in a case involving federal inmates sentenced to death, but whose sentences were commuted by President Biden to life in prison. Biden issued these commutations in December 2024 just before the end of his term. Trump has long been a death penalty enthusiast. I think that's...

the most clear way to say it. We can think back to his advocacy for the death penalty for the five black teenagers who were later exonerated in the Central Park, quote unquote, Wilding case. They are now known as the exonerated five. He was furious about these commutations that President Biden issued. And it's pretty clear from the minute he took office that if he couldn't override these commutations, he was going to find a way to make the lives of these inmates. absolutely miserable. And to it, he has issued an executive order directing the Department of Justice to ensure, quote, that these offenders are imprisoned in conditions consistent with the monstrosity of their crimes and the threats they pose. Attorney General Pam Bondi later took steps, making clear that her goal was indeed to impose the maximum punishment here. So. This lawsuit filed on behalf of the individuals who'd receive these commutations, challenged the administration's actions with respect to the conditions of their confinement. And last week, Judge Timothy Kelly in the D.C. District Court cited in part with those inmates. So he actually rejected many of their claims, but found that they were likely to succeed on the merits of their Fifth Amendment claim alleging that the decision by the administration to summarily transfer all of them to a facility known as ADX Florence deprive them of due process. So inmates, even, you know, inmates in federal... prison convicted of heinous crimes have a due process right to challenge things related to the conditions of their confinement. And it is very clear that no such process was afforded here. The sequence of events that Melissa was just describing make clear that Trump and Pam Bondi just decided that all these individuals were headed to ADX because that they thought was the toughest place they could be put. There was no consideration given to their individual circumstances, their health, their medical status, any of that. And these officials may at the end of the day very likely do. have the authority to make that determination, but they have to afford a degree of process before they do that. And the sequence of events that is sketched in the order makes clear that just there was no process afforded. The order came down from on high. It was implemented full stop. And that is just not something the Constitution permits.

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We had lunch on the island. Yeah. As one does. Again, everyone has to eat. I mean, it also was, no, I'm just this reminded me so much of when people defend. the Supreme Court justices for their cozy ties with billionaires. Like, it's not a crime to have friends. It's not a crime to have lunch on an island where people sex traffic women. It's not a crime to have friends with islands that you have lunch on with. And also the nannies, plural. Like, I guess when I heard it, I assumed, okay, that's two nannies. That's crazy. But I guess it could have been even more than two. Like, how many nannies? One for each child. Why not? Four nannies? You get a nanny. You get a nanny. You get a nanny. You get a nanny. Why God? Someone give me an idiot. Conspicuously didn't tell us. Okay, so that was Howard Lutnick. But, of course, the main attraction this week was Pam Bondi. Putting on. No, no, no. Can I just say this was the real housewives of the White House. Am I right? This was a reunion show. Yes. I mean, if Andy Cohen had showed up to gavel in this hearing instead of Jim Jordan, I would not have been surprised because this was fireworks, theatrics, just absolute fuckery on. every possible level. I did not think she could outdo herself, and yet she did. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Florida. I want us to overlay the Florence and the machine and Taylor collab, Florida. It's one hell of a drug. It really is. It really is. That is sort of the anthem, I guess, of this hearing as I think about it. Sorry, folks, if you're from Florida. I'm from Florida too. I know what I speak. That's why I can say this. It's like this is literally like high school. It was. I have a little PTSD. As I told Melissa before we started recording, I don't think I've ever watched like a single minute of any of the Real Housewives shows. But everything you said sounds right. And it just also was the most unhinged display and Attorney General of these United States has ever mounted. I mean. Correct. She shouted. Correct. She interrupted. She went on truly deranged non-sequiters. She flashed her binder to inadvertently reveal that DOJ is apparently spying on members of Congress as they visit the department to view unredacted versions of the Epstein files. I mean, it was, so Ruth Marcus in a New Yorker column, called it.

kind of roller derby, which I thought was like close, but also, I mean, I want, I too wanted to reach for a sports metaphor. Okay, coach. But roller derby is, it was not curling, let me tell you that. But it was like, roller derby is combat and is tough and the players look cool. Sometimes they do get bloodied and like that's part of it. This is just like not that. And I mean, so the week started for many of us with the Benito Bowl, aka Super Bowl halftime show. Wait, wait, was that the concert at which people also played football? That was the concert in which some people watched people play football. It was an incredible concert. It was too short. It should have been, you know, three hours instead of 13 minutes. But this was like the Pam Bondi Bowl, which was literally in every conceivable way, the polar opposite of the Benito Bowl. And that, I think, is the best sports analogy I can offer. We got to play some highlights. Pam Bondi. My girl, you have outdone yourself. So we're going to roll some tape. Let's start with Pam Bondi, really vindicating Senator Asif's thesis about the so-called Epstein class. Here she is responding to a question from Jamie Raskin about Epstein. This administration released over 3 million pages of documents, over 3 million. And Donald Trump signed that law to release all of those documents. He is the most transparent president in the nation's history. And none of them, none of them, ask Merrick Garland over the last four years one word about Jeffrey Epstein. How ironic is that? You know why? Because Donald Trump, the Dow, the Dow right now, is over. The Dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing. You're a great stock trader, as I hear Jamie Raskin. The Dow is over 50,000 right now. The S&P at almost 7,000. And the NASDAQ smashing records, Americans 401Ks and retirement savings are booming. That's what we should be talking about. You can let her filibuster all day long, but not on our watch. Not on our time. No way. And I told you about that, Attorney General, before you started. You don't tell me anything. Yeah, I did tell you because we saw what you did in the Senate. Not even a lawyer. Mitty will be in order.

Something just, her brain short-circuited. This is a wet-needs. Because, do you know why? Because Donald Trump and then just all of a sudden she beat this to the Dow. Literally, I was like, are her batteries dying? It looked like somebody needed to reboot her. But like her notes, do you think they just said when, if you're in it. bind and you don't know what to say, just say the Dow is over 50,000. And she was like remembered that she had nothing to say about how ironic is it that none of them asked Merrick Garland these questions and then because Donald Trump. And she could not finish the sentence because Donald Trump. And so she switched to talking about the Dow. Let me just take Pam Bondi seriously for a moment. I will just say to this incredible non sequitur and just like weird tangent. The stock market is not the economy. Not every American has a retirement account. So all of this is great for literally the Epstein class and people with retirement accounts, not for ordinary Americans who are literally trying to make it in this actual economic healthcape that you and your friends have created. And rant. No, no, no, absolutely. But they want both to pivot to the stock market because that is the thing they care about because that is what they and their ilk think matters. Strike for non-responsiveness. If only. Okay, so that was maybe the highlight. No. There were. No. There are others. Okay. So we wanted to play a... powerful moment that Representative Pramila Jayapal sort of created that put the lie to Pam Bondi's suggestion that the DOJ was interested in working with and cares about and had, you know, talked to and taken seriously Epstein survivors. So let's play that clip here. To the survivors in the room. If you are willing, please stand. And if you are willing, please raise your hands if you have still not been able to meet with this Department of Justice. Please know for the record that every single survivor has raised their hand. Attorney General Pam Bondi, you apologize to the survivors in your opening statement for what they went through at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein. Will you turn to them now and apologize for what your Department of Justice has put them through with the absolutely unacceptable release of the Epstein files and their information? Congresswoman, you set before. Friedrich Merz Garland sat in this chair twice. Attorney General Pam Bondi, can I finish my answer? No, I'm going to reclaim my time because I asked you a specific question that I would like you to answer, which is, will you turn to the survivors? This is not about anybody that came before you. It is about you taking responsibility for your Department of Justice. Let's play another one.

Because I don't think we can pound the table too hard on this one. Let's play another one here. Okay. There was one redaction out of over 4,700. And we invited you in. This guy has Trump derangement syndrome. He needs to get. You're a failed politician. There were a number of members of Congress, including Representative Thomas Massie, who a Republican is working very hard to make me kind of like him, even though he's completely insane. believes nothing that I believe in. He's the new Neil Gorsuch. A stop clock can be right. It is just that maybe. But yeah, so he and Ro Khanna really were the architects of this bill that has forced the disclosure of these millions of documents. And I'm not sure sort of what is what shoes are yet to drop. There's both all the redactions and the millions of pages of release documents. And the fact that there are several millions of additional pages that have not yet been released. But. Every day, it seems, it just takes time for humans to go through these millions of pages. And it is just revelation after revelation. So I think many more shoes to drop probably with even this tranche of documents. And there may be more documents to come. All right. Let's move on to another hearing. This one with ICE director, Todd Lyons. As you can probably tell listeners from the clips that we just played of the Pam Bondi hearing, House Democrats were on their game. They brought their A game. They brought the fire. They acquitted themselves incredibly well. And guess what? They continued to do so. In this hearing with ICE director, Todd Lyons, we saw even more of that. Let's start with this exchange from California Congressman Eric Swalwell. You said in Phoenix at the Border Security Expo that you wanted to see a deportation process that was like, quote, Amazon Prime but with human beings. Mr. Lyons, how many times has Amazon Prime shot a mom three times in the face? None, sir, but you're also... It's the square root of zero. Speaking of human beings, how many times has Amazon Prime shot a nurse ten times in the back? None. How many times has Amazon Prime dragged a woman out of a car by her hair and then dragged her down the street? None. And here's Eric Swalwell again, because he has more questions and he needs some answers. Sir Lyons, will you apologize to the family of Renee Good for being called a domestic terrorist by the president and his leadership? No, sir. Why not? Sir, I welcome the opportunity to speak to the family of private, but I'm not going to comment on any active investigation. Is she a domestic terrorist? Sir, I'm not a comment on the investigation. Other representatives read letters from kids detained at ice facilities. These letters were all published by ProPublica as part of their story about the conditions for children in those iced detention. So here's Representative Dan Goldman of New York. Do you know what other regimes in the 20th century required similar proof of citizenship? Yes, sir. What? So there was various nefarious regimes that did that. Is Nazi Germany one? Yes. Representative Delia Ramirez also had some questions about this, and she apparently is a student of history. And I have just as much respect for you as I do for the last white men who put on masks to terrorize communities of color. I have no respect for the inheritors of the clanhood and the slave patrol.

Those activities were immoral then and criminal, and so are yours. So I guess just these are the pieces of evidence we have to support the thesis that Congress seems to be bestirring itself. There is a lot that you can get done to communicate with the public and to really hold the feet of these administration actors to the fire even when you are the minority party. And so I think that calling hearings that are bipartisan hearings when you have an issue that is as salient in a... bipartisan way is immigration, really important. Calling the shadow hearings of the sort that we talked about last week is important. If there's an issue, you cannot get the Republican majority on board with actually highlighting and interrogating. But I do, it does feel like they are doing the work right now. And I guess just we want to see more of it. Can I give a special shout out to Becca Bailant, who she's got this little bob. She is crushing it. And she literally went. off on Pam Bondi. She's always really great. She was amazing at the hearing where Jack Smith appeared before the committee and the Republicans all tried to take him down. She was having absolutely none of this. She is always prepared, always fantastic. I don't think she gets her due. So I want to give her a shout out. She's literally one of my favorite things of the week. Oh, nice. All right. So we're doing that. She gets an early favorite thing. Shout up. That's great. That's a preview. Yes, but more to come. Okay. So shifting now both from immigration and congressional oversight to some other topics and staying on the broad subject of the chaos and lawlessness that this administration is unleashing, we're going to turn to election interference, a couple of new salvos in the war on the planet, and efforts to stamp out the last shreds of diversity and efforts to achieve diversity in our institutions. So let's start with Fulton County, Georgia. The affidavit that was used to obtain the warrant that was then used to search Fulton County, Georgia's records was recently released, and wow. Wow. The affidavit originated from a referral that was sent by Kurt Olson, who is Trump's director of election security and integrity. Olson was also the leader of Stop the Steel in 2020. Again, there are no new ideas. He also spoke with the president repeatedly on January 6th of 2021. It was wild. The warrant also incorporates research from an election denial activist whose claims have since been debunked and who was also convicted of videotaping people in the bathroom without their knowledge. Absolutely the best people. And the warrant, just for good measure, included material from a witness who downloaded his data from quote unquote zebra duck.

You cannot make this up. You can't. The warrant says, quote, if these deficiencies were the result of intentional action, it would be a violation of federal law. I didn't think you were allowed to get a warrant or an indictment by saying, if there's probable cause here, then you should give me a warrant or an indictment. So give me a warrant or an indictment, right? I mean, I thought the whole point was like you actually have to establish probable cause for said warrant or the indictment to issue, right? Or did I just read that whole constitution thing wrong? If you read fast, you don't see the if, and I think that's the hope. Yes, alas, that is where we are. Just play with the fonts a little bit and you just get the deficiencies with the results. Just two letters, very impactful, very meaningful, very easy to skip over. Yeah, details, details. Again, we cannot emphasize enough how concerning the developments in Fulton County, Georgia are. This is truly... in our view, an effort to, one, go back to 2021 and promote this election denialism, but also to look forward to the next election and essentially show that they can do this. They can go and take over a locality, a municipality, and seize their voting records and make them come to heal. Like, this is just gearing up for the next fight. Right. It is a terrifying trail run because these are old records, but once they have... kind of desensitize the public and pressured election officials into giving them old ballots. Why not get new ones? It's not a long distance to write asking for ballots in the November election this year as the election is underway. No, it's a terrifying and alarming development.

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All right, let's shift to more terrifying and alarming developments in this one in climate news. So last week, the Trump administration issued its final rule repealing what's known as the endangerment finding, a determination under the Clean Air Act that, yes, climate change endangers human health and the environment seems uncontroversial and yet. And yet. And yet, the agency formally made this endangerment finding back in 2009 after the Supreme Court decision in Massachusetts v. EPA. And that finding has been the basis for a lot of environmental regulation since then. So this repeal last week of the finding was paired with the announcement of a rollback of climate emission standards for light and medium and heavy-duty vehicles. And it also lays the groundwork for the rollback of lots of other regulations, including of coal plant emissions, emissions from oil and gas wells, and more. Trump and the EPA administrator Lee Zeldin were just like all smiles as they announced this at the White House. They were crowing about lessening the burdens on business. They were taking shots at the Obama and Biden administrations. And you know what? It was sort of conspicuous. They stayed silent on the tens of thousands of deaths and millions of additional asthma cases that experts expect the increased air pollution from these repeals and rollbacks will cause. And that does not even touch the human toll of the effect of. these rollbacks on the climate more broadly and what that will do to. All of us. But don't worry, everyone. Interior Secretary Doug Borgum took to the airwaves to reassure everyone that carbon dioxide is not a pollutant at all. In fact, he says, we need it to survive and you can just snort it off a toilet seat and you will be just fine. Wait, wait, wrong secretary. That was actually Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. talking about his past drug use, right? I cannot keep these folks. He told us. He used to snort cocaine off of toilet seats. He was not afraid of a germ. Leah Lippman has entered the chat. This is a great moment. Like, oh, hi, Leah. I just entered with you talking about him snorting cocaine off of toilet rolls. I'm just going to say, I found this week to be an absolute, like, just whirlwind of men. Putting things in the group chat that didn't need to be there. Like, I didn't need to know that he was. No. Pam Bondi was also doing that. She was there. But the Olympian who admitted to cheating on his girlfriend. Like that's true. Why is this in the group chat? That was an incredible moment. But like Pam Joe Pam Bondi's portfolios over petos. Like that. I'm so sorry. You were here. We got to play that. Men. Men. Men. I did not need to know this about Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. Like, like, there's so many things you could probably snort cocaine off of. Why toilet seats? You're a Robert F. Kennedy Jr., for God's sake. You have houses. Strengthens the immune system, Melissa, I think is the point he was making. I'm sorry, but jinx monsoon.

The drag queen has the greatest segment about snorting cocaine off of things in the All-Star season. If you haven't watched, I highly recommend. Is the toilet seat a recommended surface? It's not. But I'm not going to identify what is because this is a family-friendly podcast. Not today. Also, hello, listeners. I just joined because I'm recording from Duke. Thank you very much to the Duke Law School for setting up a recording studio for me. We really missed you in the first hour, but I'm so glad you're here for the end. Things got a little off the rails. So we were actually talking about Doug Burgum, who had taken to the airwaves, reassuring everybody that carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. And Melissa had her wires cross and said that it's okay, you can snort carbon dioxide off a toilet. I didn't say, but I just speculated that maybe you could. I didn't say he said that. I said maybe it was something you could snort off a toilet seat. It would be like a little bit tough to get an exhaust pipe like over the toilet seat. Like logistically. Oh, come on. Dream bigger, Leah. Okay. I mean, if you can send a man to the moon, what else can't this country do? That's fair. That's fair. Don't you skimp on America, Leah. Be a patriot. We can do that. All right. But so wrapping the endangerment finding repeal, just like the horror show of this last week is really a lot to encapsulate in a single hour. But you just, you know, the endangerment finding repeal, the fact that the immediate. revocation of the emissions, the vehicle emission standards, follow that, and the groundwork for all of the other, like, horrible things are going to do on this basis. And you add that to the Paris Agreement withdrawal, the underlying climate treaty withdrawal. It is just kind of impossible to get your head around the devastation that this administration is wreaking on the planet. In addition to, you know, our focus, the havoc it is wreaking on the United States Constitution. But the damage goes way, way beyond that. document. And one last quick beat on climate change. This is not like the biggest deal in the world, but it is just their dogged focus on... implementing their mission in every nook and cranny of the federal government and our collective lives is almost something that you have to salute because the henchmen of this administration seem to have noticed that there is a discussion in a manual produced by the federal judicial center for judges that talks about climate change to sort of help judges resolve climate change cases given the complex scientific background of some of these cases. The henchmen of this administration successfully bullied the federal judicial center into removing that chapter from the manual. Great job all. But like what did they get in return? Because they're still shitting all over the lower federal courts. And they are still not upping the funds to provide the lower federal courts with additional security. So, oh, this is a terrible deal for the judicial center. Oh, no, I know. I just, I want to know. Why? Why did you obey in advance? Yep.

Master negotiator, John John Roberts had to the Federal Judicial Center. All right. I also want to take a beat and talk about some of the fallout from the Supreme Court's decision in SFFA versus Harvard. That decision was announced listeners in 2023, and it prohibited the use of race-conscious admissions in college admissions processes. And race-conscious admissions processes are those where you explicitly consider race. Well. The Third Circuit decided to have a word. It struck down the race-neutral measure that was aimed at increasing diversity in selective Philadelphia-area schools. The case involved a challenge to an admissions policy that introduced six preferred zip codes. Students who resided in the six zip codes and who met school district's new criteria were admitted automatically to any of the four most coveted schools to which they applied. Students who met the criteria from other districts, were then entered into a lottery. And five of the six zip codes had a majority black and Hispanic population. So the Third Circuit concluded that, quote, viewing the record in the light most favorable to the parents, there is sufficient evidence for a reasonable fact finder to conclude that the admissions policy had a discriminatory purpose and impact requiring strict scrutiny, end quote. Note that here, the discriminatory purpose seems to be the desire. to constitute a racially diverse student body. And that, the collapsing those motives with race conscious measures is part of what we were so concerned about in the aftermath of SFFA. Even thinking about diversity is against the law. Yeah. The word woke is going through my mind. And apparently I am in unconstitutional. Exactly. Very unconstitutional. This was race neutral. It did not consider race at all. Just prescribe these zip codes. And here's the thing. If you don't want the zip codes to correlate with race, stop redlining or doing residential segregation. Yeah. Try that. Right. Exactly. Unless you do want them to correlate with race and you just don't want anybody to be able to do anything to actually desegregate schools, which I think is. Basically, that seems to be the possibility. The way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is to discriminate on the basis of race and housing. Yeah. Yeah. That's how that quote works. This is very much like the Thomas Jefferson High School case that the Supreme Court denied cert on. But obviously, even though they declined to take up that case for review, this issue is coming back before the court. And I know that America's wokeest warrior, Clarence Thomas, is going to have a lot to say about the history of redlining and residential segregation. Can't wait for it. Yeah.

Speaking of things we can't wait for, Babe New Heritage Foundation track just dropped. Wake up. Wake up. It's a doozy, right? In addition to coming for multiracial democracy, they are coming for the... slivers of sex equality and gender equality that we have because the Heritage Foundation. They're coming for your birth control. They're coming for your jobs. And they're coming for your uteruses. And probably your ability to wear pants. Go to school. Have short hair. Have a credit card. Sneakers. Open a bank account in your own name. Probably talk. Vote. Vote. Vote. Vote. Vote. I think that's a rough cut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the Heritage Foundation, which of course is the artist that brought us Project 2025, released its 250-year roadmap to, quote, save America, end quote, because Project 2025 apparently wasn't enough and they have more to do. So this pamphlet is... very clear, they are coming for your birth control, among other things, two ladies. Also, I would just like to note that in the very first Trump administration, I posted on Facebook, ladies, go out and gather birth control, get an IUD, stock up because they are coming for it. And everybody freaked the F out on me and was like your fearmongering girl. And you were a Cassandra, you were a prophet. It's not that hard. They hate women. No. So let's talk about this. The report is ostensibly concerned with flagging birth rates, at least among certain populations. I can tell you the populations they don't want to have rising birth rates and whom they don't care are not having babies. The report also notes, quote, several factors conspire to reduce birth rates. Here's one, a lack of paid family leave. No. Wait, not actually one of them. No, it actually wasn't. That was me just like putting my Heritage Foundation hat on and thinking, what does actually contribute to a flagging birth rate? How about sex stereotypes about who's responsible for family care? Sex stereotypes, burdensome student loans, lack of paid family leave, gender wage gap. Anyway. So the factors, though, that the report did call out, not the ones we just mentioned, that need to be addressed, include, quote, the proliferation of birth control, more prospects for women to receive higher education and work outside of the home, the delayed financial independence of young adults and the government's role in old age social security. Tradwives, older people, they're coming for all of yourself. Again, I cannot emphasize this enough. Law and culture work in tandem. This tradwives thing that they're doing, this is not inadvertent. It's not a coincidence. They are trying to emphasize to young women that the whole feminist project was a ruse, that women are not better off. In fact, they're exhausted and tired, and they're trying to juggle having it all, and it's bad. And what you really just want to do is go back to the home and raise your children without all these worries, and that's actually a better life. Here's the thing. Ladies, you can actually have it all if the government actually creates.

structural opportunities for you to do so. Like the paid family leave. Like not paying you less than what a man makes. Like not giving you a wage gap when you have a baby. There are so many fucking things that could happen that could make all of this happen so you could have a job and a family and not have to choose between one or the other. Ask me how I know. You know, on the other hand, we really have made considerable strides and sex equality, given that this week we learned that apparently a woman is allowed to fire a pilot after they fail to take her blanket from one. That was my favorite thing, Leah. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But you also missed us talking about the fact that it wasn't even a cozy earth blanket as far as we know. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Of course it wasn't. They have no taste. None. They have no taste. No. No. We're going to get to that. We will get to that. I'm so happy. Okay. Okay. So that is it for the news. It does feel like it has been an even more insane week than usual, both with the executive branch just really ratcheting it up, but also with both. Some of the Democrats in Congress and many lower court judges actually fighting back. I mean, we talked about this a little bit before you came on, Leah, but it's like we had obviously a number of really important rulings from lower court judges. And some of them are just talking in a different register than courts typically do. And it does feel like they are talking to all of us because they have sort of lost. faith in the people above them that they might be talking to because I don't know what's going to happen with a lot of these district court orders and I think that they realize that and some of it is still really sober and serious but it does feel like there's been like a semantic and maybe substantive shift in just like what we are seeing from the lower courts and it's really really important anyway so all of that has happened without welcome friends yes welcome friends but scotis is back Shortly, there are opinions scheduled or at least possible this coming Friday. Arguments start back up on Monday the 23rd. So unless we have any emergency episodes before then, we will be back in your ears with a February preview on Monday the 23rd. So now let's talk about our favorite things. Okay, we've already also referenced the Benito Bowl halftime show. It was incredible. I watched it obviously in real time and then maybe two or three times since and have been listening incessantly to his sort of whole back catalog, which is really extensive over the last week. It's the anthem. It's amazing. David Pressman and Arne Duncan had a great op-ed in the Washington Post. Universities are sending Trump a dangerous message that is really about obviously just the importance of solidarity and collective action, but also about how... Universities have, to some degree, fought back. I saw a push notification that I guess the administration is suing Harvard, right? No, definitely not all of them. Plenty of capitulated. This is something that we have written about. But some are fighting back. But even where there's fighting back happening.

The argument in this op-ed is that at some instances, it's been too legalistic a response. There needs to be a political response as well as a legal response, and the legal response is not enough. So I thought that was really powerful. Two more things. I finally read historian Joanne Friedman's Field of Blood, which was my TA in college. Oh, really? Yeah. I actually listened to it and she reads it. Is her voice as just like. Melifluous and like hypnotic. Okay, so it seems like in an audiobook. Anyway, it was kind of wild to read that the week of Pamela Jopondi's truly unhinged appearance in Congress. And then I will just say, Melissa slash Leah, you're going to talk about this, but I too read with my jaw in the basement of my house, the story in the Wall Street Journal about Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski. And if you haven't read it, run, get a gift link, subscribe, whatever you have to do, read the story. I'm done. Okay, so I'm going to plus one several of those recommendations, including Benito Ball and the Wall Street Journal story. I will not steal Melissa your thunder on this since I may have accidentally already done so. So I will list three others, four others. Jamel Bowie's piece, we have to look right in the face of what we've become in the New York Times, underscoring the importance of even assuming they actually do a full drawdown in Minnesota. We can't just let that slide. We need an accounting. We've referenced this before, something like a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. That is extremely important. Second, Nicole Hannah-Jay Jones, what it means to be a white race trader in the New York magazine is a very searing look, contextualizing the commentary and treatment of Renee Nicole Good and Alex Pretty in a long history of attacking. white Americans who deign to challenge racial subordination. Third, Heather Ann Thompson's new book, Fear and Fury, I thought, was just a terrific read. I absolutely loved it. And finally, as I mentioned a bit ago, I am at Duke Law for a symposium. They are holding. And I am absolutely loving it. I met several stricties in the wild. So I wanted to give special shouts out to. Emma, Gabby, Zoe, Skyler, and also the team at the Duke Law Journal who put together this symposium and accepted our article. This is the legalistic noncompliance piece that I wrote with Dan Deacon that we've talked about a little bit before, Claudia, Jared, Avery, Danny, and others. It's just been a really wonderful time here. Awesome. All right. I would like to shout out a new podcast. It's from Friend of the Pod and former guest, Simone Bernie Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels, and it's called Clockit. And it is about the intersection of politics and culture. And it is a breezy, rollicking ride. I love, love, loved it. In addition to Simone and Eugene's new podcast, I also want to call out another podcast. And this one is from the Cricket Network. It is, of course, our brother show pod save.

America, but is a particular episode. This one with perhaps our favorite pod bro. I feel weird saying that, knowing that Love is probably listening. But Tommy Viator had a terrific conversation on Pod Save America with Pablo Torre about the way in which the Trump administration uses sports, and in particular, UFC and mixed martial arts to curry favor and cultivate the manoeuvre. And I didn't know anything about UFC or mixed martial arts, but this, I thought was really, really interesting and compelling and just a great listen all the way around. Well done, Tommy. And can I say Pablo in general, sort of has a bunch of different platforms and is doing, I think, really important work in noting that the right kind of owns not just the sort of martial arts world that you're talking about, Melissa, but just like kind of sports more broadly. And it's so culturally important and powerful. And he is doing the work of kind of infusing it with a different kind of politics. And I just really respect. what he's doing. Tommy did a good job, too. And also, Tommy's wonderful, and he's our most recent guest, but we're fond of all, to be clear. I don't know. I'll pull this up. I mean, I think they have to prove it to us. Like, we did not get to go down under, as it were. Well, it's a salty that we were not just in Australia. Mm-hmm. Or New Zealand, for that matter. Did they go to both? I don't know. They were down under. Okay. That's all I know. All right. Anyway. All right. All right. My last favorite thing, and this is one that's been tease. So thank you, Leah and Kate. It's not just Congress that's given us a glimpse of housewife behavior. Even the Wall Street Journal has gotten into the act. So last week, the Wall Street Journal had an article titled, A Pilot Fired Over Kristi Noem's Missing Blanket and the Constant Chaos Inside the DHS. Well. This was about a time when Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski were on a plane and then they got off the plane and then they forgot Christy's blanket and then they couldn't find Christy's blanket. So they fired the pilot because the pilot didn't find them Christy's blanket. And then they realized they were stuck somewhere without a plane to fly them back. So they had to rehire the pilot. And you just can't make this stuff up. But the thing that I found especially interesting was the salacious detail that follows. So quote, the journal says, After photos in the Daily Mail showed Lewandowski going back and forth between his apartment and Noams across the street last year, the secretary moved into a government-owned waterfront house on a military base in Washington that is provided to the leader of the U.S. Coast Guard. The Coast Guard falls under Noam's purview at DHS during peacetime. Lewandowski also spends time at the house. The DHS spokesperson said Noam moved to the house for increased security and pays rent. Lewandowski and Noam, who are both married, have probably denied the reports of an affair, but people said they do little to hide their relationship inside the department. The GHS spokeswoman said the department doesn't waste time with salacious and baseless gossip. Well, luckily, I do. I mean, there's just a little more. We have to talk about this story for another. Wait, wait, wait. I just want to say one thing. How are you going to?

put in Project 2025 how you're going to destroy no-fault divorce when this is going on. This is exactly what no-fault divorce was made for. They don't have to get divorced. They can just carry on as they are. It works great. I mean, the spouses have the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever. Oh, yeah. I just, I don't know who the many sources for this Wall Street Journal, triple bylines piece were, but maybe spouses. Certainly many people in the administration talked to these reporters. The knives are clearly out from everywhere. John Roberts can help here. Walk across the street, go to the court. When you're as hated as these two clearly are, I don't think any NDA is going to make a difference. I'm just so glad these two loathsome trolls may have found one another. There is a lid for every pot, really. Yes. It is, yeah, it is in addition to the blanket story that Melissa told and the sort of, you know, the walking talkies across the street. That was like literally the least of it. Yeah, it is just. Counting Tom Homan appearances on television, comparing them to Gnom's appearances. Who's the real border, Zarina? It's neat. Lewandowski's efforts to obtain not just credentials, but a firearm to carry. I mean, it is. It is, and this was kind of maybe clear in the excerpt that Melissa just read, but... It's just wild revelation after wild revelation followed by this like very perfunctory non-denial denial from the DHS spokesperson. Like they're not even really trying to dispute any of it. It's just salacious baseless gossip that I loved. Yes. We all love it. We love it too. It actually really sparked joy this week in a really challenging week. And so thank you to the Wall Street Journal. I mean, Murdoch occasionally gives us a real, he really gives us solid. This was one. This was solid. This was good. Yes. And there is actually one more favorite thing that I kind of want to offer up as a collective favorite thing, which is the campaign of Democrat Jessica Bickler for the North Carolina State Senate seat in District 7 in New Hanover County, North Carolina. Jessica, we were so excited to learn that you were a strict scrutiny listener and that the show played a part in your decision to run for the state Senate. Jessica heard about Vote Save America's candidate recruitment program on our show and filled out an online form, not knowing where it would lead and is now running for, again, North Carolina State Senate District 7 to try to break the Republican supermajority and flip New Hanover County Blue. Jessica, we're so excited you're running. Listeners figure out how you can help support Jessica. This is just like really, really exciting. And we're going to follow this race closely. And Jessica, you are one of our very favorite things this week.

Okay, housekeeping listeners, guess what? We are less than a month away. We're actually exactly three weeks away from seeing you live and in person on the best coast. If you haven't gotten your tickets yet for our LA show at the Palace Theater on March 7th, what are you waiting for? John Lovett will drive you there himself. Ask me how I know. He won't. He probably won't. But... It's going to be so amazing. L.A. is one of our favorite cities. We love the West Coast. We're going to have so much fun. It's actually going to be unhinged. If you haven't seen one of these live shows. We promise not to leave our blankets in San Francisco. We won't. We also promise not to shoot any dogs while we're out there. It's going to be great, though. We are going to be doing the absolute most in San Francisco and then on to L.A. You can get your tickets at cricket.com forward slash events. So do not wait. Do this now. It's going to be so much fun. We can't wait to see you. Strict Scrutiny is a Crooked Media production, hosted and executive produced by Leah Lippman, Melissa Murray, and me, Kate Shaw. Our senior producer and editor is Melody Rowell, Michael Goldsmith is our producer, Jim Jordan Thomas is our intern, music by Eddie Cooper, production support from Katie Long and Adrian Hill. Matt DeGroote is our head of production. Thanks to our video team, Ben Hethcote, and Johanna Case. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to strict scrutiny in your favorite podcast app and on YouTube at strict scrutiny podcast, so you never miss an episode. And if you want to help other people find the show, please rate and review us. It really helps.