The Rod and Greg Show: Utah School Admin Salaries Report; Indiana Maries; Less Washington, More America

How are you, everybody? It is Wingman Wednesday, right here on the Rod and Greg show on this Wednesday afternoon in Utah's Talk Radio, 1059, K&RS. Great to be with you. Live everywhere, by the way, on the IHeart Radio app. I'm Rod Arquette. I'm a heart radio app. I'm a friend. I'm a rocket, Robert Rott Arquette. I think I'm the Iceman. Really? Yeah, I'm not goose anymore. You know, one of my former radio names when I spun the hits years and years ago was Rocket Rod. Rocket Rod. There you go. I like it. Didn't last long. Well, you say Rod and you say Arquette fast enough. It sounds like Rock. Yeah, it does a little bit. Rocket. Yeah. Rocket. Rocket? Sounds a little bit. One of my favorite hockey players of all time was named Rocket. Really? Rocket Richard, played for the Montreal Canadian. 20s, 30s, what decade? 50s and 60s. You just have to poke. You have to start every show off with a little poke. I just have to lament a little bit here. I have never in my life, ever in my life have I ever cheered for an NHL team that's from Canada. Just, just, I just had good instincts as a child. You never did. You don't like Canadians. And then you get to baseball. And in, in, in, before I was born, but in 1960, the pirates beat in game seven. My Yankees. Yankees that had yogi Bari Weiss, Roger Marrish, you name it. And I have never spent a day of my life liking or cheering for the New York Yankees. However, since the Rod and Greg show has begun, and since I have been co-hosting with my friend, Rod, who does. you know, betray this country and love the Canadians. And he does like the better than everybody's snooty Yankees. I have instinct, without even thinking about it, I cheer for them. For those guys, like I want them to win. And I don't even want them to, I don't even want them to win. I just find myself cheering for him because I know that's who you're cheering for. Yeah. Yeah. So a simple thank you'd be nice. Well, thank you. It's a friendship thing. I don't even know myself anymore. We're bonding. Yeah, we must be because I don't even recognize me. That is not my method of operation, but I do find myself here. There was a game seven. Boy, I came to the end with those Canadians, and they won. Good for them. They beat Tampa Bay. A lot of fun. A lot of fun. So they play again tonight. First game against Buffalo. As the Stanley Cup playoffs continue, we have got a whale of a show. We're going to touch on here in just a minute. I tell you what, this data center in Boxelder County is really stirring up things. Whoa. It's a double-edged sword, folks. I'm trying to call balls and strikes here. I think I can argue some pros. I can argue some cons. And I think both exist in this story. I don't think you're hearing that as well being reported that way. But here, there is a lot to be frustrated about. But there's a lot to talk about and to think about as well. And I think that you do this whole topic at this service if you don't really dive into all of it.

because there is something worth discussing here. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. We'll talk about this new report on the expenses when it comes to education here in Utah. Get ready for this one, folks. It is going to blow you away when we unveil some of the findings of this report today. Also coming up a little bit later on, what a night in primary elections around the country. Who said that MAGA is dead? I don't think so. Nope. And our morning a show call, this is what I thought would dominate our show today, is the strength of... Donald Trump. Donald Trump at the base. And I want to say that this isn't Donald Trump waving a magic wand and everybody following him blindly. The base, the number of Americans that appreciate and identify and agree with President Trump, they're not all card-carrying Republicans, folks. There are people that just don't like politics, don't trust politicians, and think that Donald Trump, with all of his... rough edges, speaks for them, and they support him. It's the base and this base that supports President Trump, who looked at Indiana and said, President Trump won our state by 20 percent. We can't redistrict, but Virginia, that Kamala Harris won by 5 percent. They can wipe out almost every Republican district off of their map. What have you done? And I think that this is a, I think this is a constituent-driven movement that agrees with our president. This isn't. What the media wants you to believe in this is retribution and revenge and all the wrong reasons to win an election. And MAGA has hijacked the elections. All those narratives are from a bunch of... Poor losers. That's what that is. Well, we're going to get to that as well, but we want to start off the show today. Like I said, this decision by the Boxelder County commissioned the other day to take another step toward the construction of a data center, a massive data center up there in Boxelder County, has real touch, really, I think Greg touched off a firestorm. Here's what's happened today. You have one group that's already filed a request for a petition. in that county to get voters to weigh in on this one way or another sign a petition to stop it i don't know where that stands legally but you can see you have a member of the uh the the committee what is it called this a government agency or whatever that determines this miba mighta you mean you mean the military i'm getting this wrong but i want to call it the military industrial the military installation development authority but i don't think the word is installation there's a different i'll get you the word but it is an acronym for It's a political subdivision. It's a special service district that is much like, anyway, it can collect the property taxes. It can help, it can do the permitting, the land use. It makes a lot of those decisions. And MIDA, as a political, as a special service district, will be working with and developing this large development if and when it goes through. Well, a member of that board, a member of that agency is state senator Jerry Stevenson. Okay, we know Jerry well. He's been on the show before, right? I know for years. Yeah, yeah, and me too. He also owns a very popular nursery in Davis County called J&J Nursery. Well, now there's an effort to boycott the nursery.

Yeah, well. You know, and people have a right to do that, but he's had to defend that. And then you have the county commissioners who had to make that decision. What was it on Monday about whether or not this project is going to proceed? Now those commissioners are facing death threats, if you can believe that. Here's Lee Perry, who is a member of the commission. He took their social media today to talk about what he and his family are facing right now. I personally am extremely frustrated. I didn't take this roll on. I didn't get into the legislature. I didn't get into commission to do things to hurt people. I've never, that's never been my character. My whole personality is to do what's right by the people, if it all possible. And all I was trying to do is follow the law, follow what it tells me I'm supposed to do. I listen to attorneys, I listen to experts to say, this is really where you should go. This is what. you should do because this is within the law. And I've done it. And now I'm being personally attacked. I'm being accused of taking bribes and all kinds of things that are just not true. They're just lies. And they continue to escalate. And now I'm being told that my family's being targeted. I literally have police officers in front of my house. And that's not fair to me, but it's especially not fair to my family. And it's not fair to either the other two commissioners either. Lee Perry, a member of the Bouchelder County Commission. Now, a couple of things about Lee Perry. First of all, you can hear the emotion. Yes, you can. In his voice right now, you know, he's concerned, and he is getting some threats. Lee Perry is a former member of the Utah Highway Patrol. That's what I was going to bring up. The background of this man's public service is long. Yeah, and he has done a lot in public service, and he's faced difficult times before, correct? He has. I mean, you know, and he is a member of that commission, and they followed the law. As you pointed out the other day, Greg, the law lays this out, and they followed the law and did what the law says they can do. So the background on, so I served, so Commissioner Lee Perry used to be a member of the house. And I served with him for a very, very long time. And this is not a man who you hear a lot of emotion from. He was, as you said, he was a retired Utah Highway Patrolman. He's very deliberative in the decisions he makes as a public servant. And I, and when he says, I'm, I'm trying to make decisions. I like being a public servant to make a difference. And I'm trying to, and that's what I try to do. I know the man and I know that's, that is, that is what drives him. And, and so to hear him talk about this, and we've seen examples of this where other public hearings in Draper, when they're talking about a homeless. Oh, yeah, yeah. The mayor had to have law enforcement parked outside of his home because of the, the riotous nature of the whole thing and the threats that were being thrown around. But this goes back to a comparison I made, and this is what's so unfair to the public. I'm going to say this is unfair to the public. I have sympathies for my former colleague and friend Commissioner Lee Perry. But the real disconnect that's happening right now, and I don't know how other than our smart listeners of the show, who've heard this and maybe can share, a three-member county commission form of government combines your executive branch and your legislative branch. And the contrast I can share with that is Salt Lake County has a mayor. and it has a commission or a council, a Salt Lake County Council. The Salt Lake County Council is your legislative branch. Your mayor is your executive branch. In a three-member county form of government, where you have three commissioners, they do both. They're one and the same. The challenge and what was unfair to the public is the public hearing they attended, they thought was like a legislative hearing. Where you go and public comment is received, it can influence the decision one way or another. This was an executive branch vote where if...

the applicant on land use change fulfills the law and the ordinances of the county, the state and the county, and they fulfill them. Their vote is contingent on did they follow the law? And the word is they did. And there are no, I get to pick and choose whose water rights get to be sold or not. I don't get to pick and choose what type of. There are different decisions in front of them, as the commissioner said in that clip you played. But they were making an executive branch decision. But the public doesn't, the public was asked to attend and they rightfully in their mind saying. Wanted to be heard. Why would you not take public comment and how could our comments if we're here at a public meeting? not influence the outcome of this vote. I understand why the public feels that way. Oh, yeah. And nobody's explaining when you're explaining you're losing. Nobody's explaining that this was an executive branch decision that they followed the law. There are no ordinances that give them the latitude to say yes to some and no to others. And so they did follow the law. But I would argue that in defense of the public, not the ones that just want to stop it and they're Utah Hans and they're from out of state. They just want to stop a process. For the members of the public that have legitimate concerns. Two things. One, there needs to be answers. And then two, right after those answers, how are you enforcing it? How are you going to structure it? Don't just tell me what you, oh, it's not going to use a lot of water. It's not going to use any power. Tell us how. You need to have the specifics that show how the checks and balances will make sure that what's being represented actually can be enforced. Yeah. Well, we'll keep our eye on on this and follow this throughout the show today in the coming days right here on the Rod and Greg Show in Utah's Talk Radio 105.9, KNRS. Great to be with you on this Thursday afternoon, no Wednesday afternoon, swing men Wednesday on talk radio, 1059 KNRS. The Utah Taxpayers Association released a report yesterday, I believe it was, and this will, this just rattled me. I think it rattled both of us. It showed that Utah school administrators earn 61% more than teachers. So what's going on with that? Joining us on our, yeah, you're shaking your head over there. Joining us on our newsmaker line to find out more about this is Billy Hesterman. Billy, of course, with UTA. Billy, how are you? Welcome to the Rod and Greg show. Thanks to joining us again, Billy. Hey, Rod and Greg. Nice to be with you guys. That's kind of a startling number, Billy. 61% more for administrators than teachers. Wow. Yeah, and we're talking about, you know, the vice principal, the principal, the district staff, the just, you know, the superintendent, the business administrator. So a lot of staff that's on board at these districts that are, you know, collecting a bigger paycheck than I think most people anticipate. So, Billy, let me ask you that. So there was, once upon a time, we had debates about whether there were large school districts were more effective, you know, with, with the economy of scale or smaller school districts. Do you see any correlation? Or did you in your study where if it's a larger school district, the administrators might be handling more students, more schools, so they're being paid more versus the smaller districts. And are they, you know, commensurately smaller in pay or compensation? Or is it just a have and have not amongst administrators and educators in Utah?

You know, there's an interesting thing we see with different governments here in Utah. And it probably happens in other states, but I focus here on how the districts and the cities and the counties, they all look at each other and compare one another, which is natural. But I think it almost leads to them driving up. pay for each other. And it's almost like you have to wonder sometimes. I don't really think they do this, but they call up one school district and say, hey, you bump up 5% so that we can also bump up 5% and say this is why we're doing it. And I think that's a little bit of what we see is that districts, one goes up and the other one to keep up with them because nobody wants to lose the staff that they have. Billy, another note that you point out in this report. is that classroom teachers, the people who are really making the difference in our kids' lives, account for only 45% of total school staff. So are we talking administrative supporters, too many principals, too many vice principals? What are all the other people doing, Billy? That's a great question. And I think it really does vary by districts, but it is the, you have the teachers and you have the lunchroom workers and the janitors and then the front office staff and the library and the coaches and so on and so forth. But, you know, our main point by doing a report like this is to say, are we putting money into things that will produce positive student outcomes or are we putting money in places where it doesn't need to go? And I think what we're finding is we'd like to see a little more focus. on what we can do with our money to make sure students are prepared to get into the workforce and make our country as great as it can be for the next generation. So let me ask you, the... How does this sit? Well, you have a teacher's union. I'm not on the same side with, but how in collective bargaining or how does teacher, how does, how do you see the administrative compensation just get so far separated from teacher compensation? You would think that internally within the education establishment, there would be more equilibrium there or a little bit back and forth. You stare at these numbers all the time, Billy. Why, why such a disparate? amount for administrators versus these teachers do you think? I think oftentimes government looks at like, well, what's a comparable private sector organization that has, you know, X amount of employees and X amount of people that they impact? And we're going to try to keep that at pay rate about the same. I don't know if that's the best comparison that districts or cities or others should look at. But that seems to be where they go, well, you know, the head of a small business that makes this much. So that's what we think our superintendent needs to make. I'd argue maybe they've gotten a little.

too out of hand because many of our superintendents are in that $200,000 a year salary range when we still have teachers sitting at 1665. Billy, if people want to see more information on this, where should they go? You must have a website they can check this out on, right? Yep. So on the front page of our website, Utahtaxpayers.org, and you'll see school spending report. You can click on it and see all the data for the 41 different school districts and then the 100 plus charter schools there that you can see how they're spending their dollars on a per student average and then also how they rank compared to the other districts. Well, good work on this one. It's a fascinating report. Billy, thank you. We appreciate a few minutes your time. Yes, thank you. Thanks, guys. All right, Billy Hesterman, president of the Utah Taxpayer Association, quite revealing, I think. Well, and if you get into that, go to utah taxpayers.org, you've got some other stats in there. 60% of our property tax dedicated to public education funding, our property tax, 45% of state-level revenue sources, that's your income tax and whatever state portion of property tax, 45% of all state-level collected revenue. goes to our public schools. So there's a lot of, there's, there's, I know people say we got a lot of kids and we don't, we're not keeping pace, but I, I think that if you looked at the effort of the taxpayer, uh, towards our public education system, the taxpayer is doing their bit. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't have as many kids as we used to in the education system has been pointed out. We don't. We don't. It's shrinking. By, by, by per pupil should be growing just for that reason alone. Less kindergartners and seniors graduating. More coming up on the Rod and Greg show. I thank our listeners who use the talkback line and give us a great takes. You know, since Donald Trump has returned to the White House, everybody is asking is Maga dying? Well, Greg, I think we saw evidence last night that it is... Far from death. States, you know, reports of their demise has been grossly exaggerated. Yes. Greatly exaggerated. Well, let's find out what happened in the primaries, primarily in Indiana last night. Joining us on our newsmaker line is M.D. Kittle, senior elections correspondent with the Federalist, MD. How are you? And welcome back to the Rod and Greg Show. I'm well, gentlemen, and thank you for having me. MD, what's your take as to what happened in Indiana last night? Well, I guess I can put it simply in one word, one hyphenated word, butt kicking.

And really, sweet, sweet revenge for Republicans who were Republicans in name only, certainly on this issue. When we're facing an existential crisis as conservatives in this country, we're on the brink of losing the republic that we have grown up with, the republic that has stood nearly 250 years. This is the birthday of the United States of America this year. Until we got the Constitution, we weren't the official republic as it is. But we've been around for a long time, and there are a lot of people in this country that want to reduce it to rubble, the Republic. They see the Republic as a country of oppressors, oppressing the oppressed. And too many Republicans have kind of gotten into that line of thinking. More so, gentlemen, they've gotten into the line of thinking that says, you know, maybe the Democrats aren't fair with their massive gerrymandering in California and Virginia. But we need to be above the fray. And I'm here to tell you that voters in Indiana last night said, don't be above the fray. Get into the fray. Absolutely. And you know, and here's the thing. There's nothing about capitulation that is high road to me. I mean, and this is an effort that's going on in, as you mentioned, California, in Virginia and other states until we just saw the Voter Rights Act well defined by the Supreme Court, even Illinois was trying to get on the act and even, you know, put the thumb on the scale even more. Here's my question. You have an interesting internal fight with the Republicans. You had former governor, former vice president, Pence. who was lobbying those Republican senators in the Indiana State Senate to not do it. You had former, well, was the governor of Ohio, John Kasich, another candidate for president, who was also wagging his finger at Republicans saying, don't do this, this is bad form. I never saw either one of those individuals wagging their fingers at Gavin Newsom in California, at anyone in Virginia for what they were doing. Is this something that happens where the rebuke of Pence, Kasich, the rhinos, is this something that is going to track across other states as we go forward? Because I think it sends a very strong message and an appropriate message. Yes, this was incredibly important because it said to Mike Pence and to the conservatives of 2000 that that era is over. Mike Pence really wants to go back to the kinder, gentler days of politics in America. And you've got to go back a while to get there because, man, liberals, they're like rust. They never sleep. It's always a battle. It's always the long term. They will always do whatever they can inside and outside the law. not fairly, to gain and consolidate power. And Mike Pence didn't get that. John Kasich didn't get that. They're rhinos. And a colleague of mine at the Federalist wrote a great piece, GOP voters.

Not just in Indiana, but across the country. Last night, we hear the talk about this, they rejected the Mike Pence Republican Party. That Republican Party is done. MD, final question, this sure does set up a very interesting midterm election, does it not? Oh, it sure does. And this, again, I really want to hammer home how important this was because the narrative, of course, unusual suspects in the accomplice media is, oh, look out Republicans. You're going to get it handed to you come November. People are tired of Trump and they're tired of the MAGA movement. The MAGA movement will stand up and they will come out and vote if you do the right thing. And the right thing is to make America great again. But if you fail to do that as the U.S. Senate, Republican-controlled U.S. Senate has done with, oh, I don't know, maybe the foundational Save America Act. You've got a senator there, by the way. Mike Lee is fantastic on this issue. Nobody has led better than Mike Lee on this. important election integrity issue. But you're seeing, you saw a lot of Republicans say, I'm probably going to sit this one out because I voted for something I didn't get. That's true. MD, always great chatting with you. Always great analysis. Thanks, MD. Anytime, guys. All right. M.D. Kittle, he is the senior elections correspondent at the Federalist, talking about the impact of the primary votes last night, and it sure does set up for a very interesting midterm election. More redistricting battles, certainly coming up. Apparently, it's going to get nicer in the coming days, and we hope for that. We need to make note today. Greg, Ted Turner died today. 87 years old. Yeah, you know, I was saying to Queen B this morning that, you know, CNN was never a conservative bastion, You know, it was a little bit more fair. Yeah. In the beginning it was. It sure was. Yeah. And it was the first cable news network where when you traveled around and you got at least a consistent narrative of what's happening around the country. And I just don't think that what Ted Turner created, if he was being, if it was an honest day, he would recognize that network and what it's become. Yeah. It's unrecognizable. Well, he's an amazing story. At 24 years old, his dad died by suicide. So he was left with an advertising company, a billboard company is basically what it was, and built it up and built it up, made more money, was eventually, you know, able to purchase one television station in Atlanta and created what was known as TNT or TBS, Turner Broadcasting or TNT, bought the Atlanta Braves, bought the Atlanta Braves, bought the Atlanta Hawks, a basketball team, of course, there at the time. And he, and then went on. He deserves a medal because he married Jane Fonda. Oh, my goodness. That would have been, you know. I don't know what the deal was there. But you know what? In many ways, agree or disagree with those politics. Set that aside, I think he is just another example of an American success story. I mean, look what the guy did. Yeah, isn't it amazing, the freedom of self-determination. Yeah. In a country where you can actually not just stay in whatever circumstance you were born in.

But rise and fall, as per your, you know, your grit, your ambition, your work ethic. It's a beautiful country, isn't it? And who cannot forget CNN when the United States was attacking Baghdad? And here's Bernard Shaw. And I'm very of the other guy's name. And they're in Baghdad. There's Wolf Blitzer, too. He was part of it. And you could see the bombs dropping on Baghdad. Who can forget those? CNN led the way in that. And they did, you know, during that war, everybody had CNN on. Because they were on top of the story. It was amazing. It was. And they did, they had an international too. And you could watch that, actually. And if you were traveling abroad back in, you know, I'm saying the 90s. And at least understand from the United States perspective what was happening in America, but also around the world, that's all gone. None of that looks remotely familiar anymore. And I think he owns one of the largest ranches that were used to up in Montana. Yeah. He's a busy man. Thousands upon thousands of acres up there. At one time, I don't know if he still has it, but dead today at the age of 87, and even President Trump recognized him today as being a really an American innovator and hero in many ways. Yeah, I think good businessmen respect other businessmen. I think that's what you saw in President Trump. All right. Hour number two, Rod and Greg, coming your way on Talk Radio 105.9, KNRS. Stay with us.

It's time. It's time to get in the van and rock and roll for another hour. All right. So Greg, today, I was looking through the many news sources that I looked through every morning, putting the show together, looking for possible ideas, possible guests. And they came across this article in the Washington Examiner. And they have a section called Restoring America. And they include op-eds from people around the country talking about the importance of certain aspects of America and making sure we restored, right? Well, I saw this article is called Less Washington, More America. And instantly I was attracted to it. And I looked at the author and I'd say, it is a state representative from Utah named Jason Thompson. Wow. It is one of Utah's own. Wow. And again, it's a nationally published and circulated paper and op-ed, and I think a really important issue that. Again, we're lucky enough to have the inside scoop from the very author of the op-ed right here with us, in studio. In studio, we reached out to him and said, I'll just come in and grace your studios. Yeah, he's very nice of them. He's very nice of them. Jason, welcome to the show. Great to have you on. Hey, thanks to having him. I'm glad to be here. Jay, talk about this article and what you're trying to convey to people as they read it. Yeah, so listen, I'm on the Federalism Commission that we have here in Utah. You might be surprised to know that there's 23 states that have a Federalism Commission or a Federalism Committee of some kind. However, 16 of them are completely inactive. They're not even functioning. Why? Why? I think it's indifference. I think it's maybe a feeling of we don't know how to push back on Washington or we don't know how to say no to Washington. I don't know all the answers. But I can say this. We've been doing what's called the National Federalism Initiative. It was created through House Bill 488 in 2025. Ken Ivory, Representative Ivory, was the sponsor. But it's a National Federalism Initiative, and there's three pillars to this initiative. The first is continuing education. I was elected to the legislature and I got no training on, hey, this is the field that you're going to be playing on. This is what jurisdiction looks like. This is the federal government's role. This is the state government's role. I didn't get any of that. And we don't get any continuing education. Neither do any of our great state employees working in our state agencies.

So we start looking at this and we start looking at the polarization that we have in the country and the despair that we feel is this political despair, but our problem, in my opinion, is not political. Our problem is structural. We have flipped what the founders envisioned for this great country, where the states would have the numerous and indefinite powers and responsibilities, the federal government would have few and defined. We flipped that. Now the federal government is gladly doing the numerous and indefinite powers and responsibilities. The states are left to do the paperwork and to comply because they're taking... the money, which is another story for another day, where we're now $39 trillion in debt. But this op-ed, for me, this is how we heal our country. I mean, this is such an important topic, and there's so many places I want to go, being a recovering state lawmaker myself, and everything you're saying is spot on. But I want to go into some of the detail. But maybe share with our listeners the general point. So if we have... uh, we sometimes people think federalism means stronger federal government. It's not. It's states rights. A little misleading in a time. With states rights, what is it, uh, representative that you believe that states should be leaning into doing, accomplishing and leaving the federal government, frankly, out of it? What are those, those issues in public policy that bring so much, you know, partisanship or, or polarization that. duly elected state representatives from each state really have the ability and should be doing. Well, what are the, I mean, what does the Constitution say that, I mean, we have, we have the 10th Amendment. We've got Federalist paper 45, I believe it is, where it talks about the Division of Responsibilities and Division of Powers. Listen, the federal government never has had a constitutional role or authority in education. and health care and a lot of these things that they take a very active role in um the the powers that were delegated and designated for the federal government interstate commerce right war powers and and and and foreign relations um uh civil rights yeah right civil rights those types of things So really a lot of what the federal government is doing, we should be doing here in the state. And that's part of what we're doing with our federalism initiative. We're doing financial contingency planning so that here, not only are we going to get the state of Utah out of debt, number one, but number two, we're doing financial contingency planning to say, hey, when the day comes. that investors say we are not buying treasuries anymore. When that day comes and we have hyperinflation like we've never seen before, our citizens in the state of Utah are going to be protected.

Because we're going to have a financial plan for, well, how do we take care of the health, welfare, and safety of our citizens? We are doing that because that's the state's responsibility. The problem is everybody is going to realize it at the wrong time when it's total catastrophic. Jason, does the public understand what federalism is all about? Do they have a basic understanding is this is what it means? Generally speaking. No, most people don't. You hear the word federalism, and you either think, like Greg said, more federal government, which has nothing to do with more federal government, or some people tie it to quote-unquote states' rights and some of the darkest times in our history, which was slavery. And listen, I would say that federalism, principles of federalism, are ultimately what got us out of some of those darkest days in our history. Because it was states that stepped up and the federal government playing a healthy, proper role in that intergovernmental relationship with the states that we were able to make tremendous progress with civil rights. And so, no, I don't think most people understand federalism. I do think inherently within us, We believe and agree that we want government closest to the people because it's more accountable. We want less decisions being made in Washington, D.C., more decisions being made closer to home. Why should I have to have the same policies on a given issue? Maybe it's on education, for example. Why should we have to have the same policies here as Vermont? I don't live in Vermont. Let them with their elected officials there decide what they're going to do and how they're going to do that there. Here in Utah, I'm accountable to my constituents. And that's what matters. That's the way it should be. So, Representative, I think that Utah and Utah citizens uniquely understand the crush of a federal government because of our lands issues. We've got to say it's over 65% of Utah is still federally owned and controlled. But when you live along the Wasatch Front, which 75% of the population does, you don't really feel that. You get down to those rural counties where 85. To get to that 66% statewide average, you've got 85 and 90% of a county that is controlled by the federal government. That's why in the 80s we had the sagebrush rebellion of which Ronald Reagan was a big part of. You had Mike Levitt in the 90s who was leading this federalism charge. You have the federalism commission now. I think that there is, I think we have communities all over this state who feel the oppression of this type of management, where the federal government gets to dictate, who gets access, what they do. My question is, in your discussions, you talk about even nationally, is there any empathy to be gained with other lawmakers? Because not everybody faces the same challenge as Utah does in terms of how strong the federal government's control is over their entire state. We have that unique perspective. How do you spread that? Because I think that beyond Utah, you need to have state lawmakers who become to jealously guard their constitutional duties. Is there any chance for that as you're having those conversations? Absolutely, there is a chance for that. And we have momentum now like we haven't had in a long time.

So we had our first National Federalism Initiative State Summit last year, Summit of the States in September. We had 17 states represented. And it was a bipartisan delegation. This is a bipartisan effort, right? Bipartisan effort. Listen, I've always said federalism is dead to the party in power. And the reason why is because of the political side. The political side is, well, I was just plundered. for the last four years when the other party was in. So now that I have power, I'm going to take everything I can get and then some, right? And this is leading to what I call policy by pendulum. And policy by pendulum is ruining our country. And so, yeah, we've got tremendous momentum right now and great conversations all over the country. Yes, if you go back and you say public lands in Maryland or in Virginia, they're like, public lands, what? You even say water. They're like, water? Water is an issue, you know? So, but yes, there are a lot of issues where a lot of states, whether it's red or blue, feel very frustrated because the federal government is so entrenched and so involved with every aspect of our lives. Representative, we've got a few more questions. We've got a crowded studio in here today. We'll ask you, hang on for a second. Give up your mic so we can get the other guys in for just a moment. And we'll continue our conversation. A lot of fun. Can you hang on for the Braves? Sounds great. Did you hang on through the break? Yeah, absolutely. All right. All right. More coming up. It is the Rod and Greg show right here on Utah's Talk Radio, 1059. KNRS is... ...to a crack. Representative, Jason Thompson, we're talking about an op-ed piece. He wrote in the Washington Examiner about federalism. Less federal and more America. Amen to that. You know, you're speaking my language. I see state legislative bodies... Because you can't print money, you have to actually get work done. You have to balance budgets. And that's blue states and red states. You have bills that start in a legislative session that go through a committee that people actually are present in and have to pass. And then you have floor debates on bills and they pass or fail. You get to Congress. You get to the swamp. And there's nothing about a legislative branch that you serve in representative and that I did that I can recognize. I don't see any of it happening in real time. And so. I think the effectiveness of a legislative branch absolutely and in verifiably found in our state legislatures. So with that said, the challenge I think we have in terms of establishing what the Constitution already says, and that is the narrow powers that states collectively give the federal government to do, interstate commerce, defense, you know, currency, those things. is that we don't have enough examples of issues that touch everybody on state's rights the same. So in the break, we were talking about what are the hot button issues that a blue state cares when it comes to state rights issues versus what hot button issues that we in Utah say we care about when we see the oppression of a federal government controlling the land and all of that. So my question to you is, if you don't have a common denominator, blue state, red state on what...

what issues we want to protect by way of state's rights. How do you tap into that desire? Because they all have it. And we could go through the different issues that blue states and red states want to exercise state rights against the federal government. What's the mechanism you want to use to unite these states together without consideration of partisan, you know, majority, to really advance the state's rights because it is the way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great question. And up through the 1990s into the Clinton administration, there was what was called the ACIR. It was the American Center for Intergovernmental Relations. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was basically an intergovernmental relations organization of states that came together and guess you funded it. the federal government. So you've got a watchdog of states watching the federal government and pushing back on unfunded federal mandates, and they push back during the Clinton administration, and guess what? Funding was pulled. So then all of a sudden it fizzles, right? So what we envision with a national federalism initiative, and it's the third pillar, it's one of the most important parts of where we're wanting to get to, is a reconstitution of a national federalism commission. Now, listen, this is simply, this is not insurrection. This is not saying that the federal government doesn't have an appropriate role to play in these intergovernmental relationships. There's a very important part of a relationship there. But this National Federalism Commission... It would be a place for the states to come together to have discussions of jurisdiction, to have discussions on different issues, to push back on the federal government, whether that be through legislative action, through legal action, whatever that may be. But that's ultimately where we'd like to get back to is to if we aren't having, it was, I believe it was George Mason that said. frequent recurrence to fundamental principles is essential for the preservation of liberty and you know what i don't think we're having much of a frequent recurrence of any kind of conversation about principles of federalism, about the Constitution, about the roles of the states, the roles of the federal government, and how we maintain healthy relationships. That's what we're working to get back to right now. Yeah. That's the key. And boy, do we need it. That's for sure. Jason, thanks for coming by. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. State representative Jason Thompson. Nice guy. Hey. I'm, he's up there. I think he's going to fill in for you someday. Yeah, the guy is, the guy is really smart. How long have you served?

I'm in my first term. Wow. So you hear this? You hear this? I think there's a, I think there's a trajectory where I listen to right now. It's a good one, too. I'm trying to make it from today. tomorrow. That's what I'm trying to get. It's all it matters. Fog come here and you'll be in good shape. All right, more coming up. Thank you for joining us. On the Rod and Greg Show in Utah's talk radio, 1059, KNRS. That big new data center proposed for Boxelter County. As a matter of fact, the county commission on Monday gave approval to another step in the process. It is huge, but it wouldn't house just one company, Greg. It's kind of like a business park where different companies would be part of that data center and be able to use the center. Yeah, it would be a hub. It would be, it would house instead of, it's been described to me as instead of having the garage bands that are out there and trying to do what they need to do and trying to generate the power and all of that that they need, you would have, you'd have this, and it's large. It's 60, what, 60 square, 60 miles? 62 or 60 miles, something like that. This would be one of a kind. You wouldn't see this in many states. You'd see this in the United States. This would be one, would be a major hub to do that. That sounds daunting, certainly, but it also can be opportunities if this is an emerging economic sector and a national security issue in which we don't want China or others to get in front of us on the AI race. But with that said, I think there could be great opportunity, but you have got to get to these details to bring the public. And look, I've heard that said a lot of times, and there's sometimes the public doesn't want to be brought along. They hate it. and they don't want to be brought along and they'll bring up issues but you can't solve them because at the end of the day send it anywhere but where i live And I'm just going to say that we, I don't know that if everyone took that posture, we're just offshoring yet another sector in this country. And it does not make the United States stronger to do that. Let's find the solutions and get there. And I think they've done, I think this Kevin O'Leary has done an exhaustive search. I know Alberta, Canada, which is trying to secede from Canada, by the way, which I love. Yes. Alberta, Canada is a conservative province in Canada that wants to be one of these hubs. And the other one is here in Utah. And I think there's a reason. I think that we have Republicans and supply siders that want to get things accomplished. But. I have watched this process and I think the public feels shortchanged and I think they have a right to feel that way. Well, I understand if people want to protest, they can protest, right? They should. They should be able to. And there was a story today in one of the media outlets here that Jerry Stevenson, State Senator Jerry Stevenson, who serves on that government agency that is moving this along. He owns J&J Nursery, very popular nursery out there in Leighton and Davis County up there. I shop there.

Yes. Okay. That's where my wife and I usually go. Well, you know, there's a call to boycott his business because of his stand on this thing. They've responded as best they possibly can, but if it gets in people's mind, it's going to happen. The one thing I do not like, Greg, and this is happening, are threats against the county commissioners. And Lee Perry said that today. We won't have time now to play his response on social media, but no with the threats. You know, I understand if you're opposed. I don't think there's any. I think there's many conservatives that have serious concerns. I think when you hear the threats, that's the Democrat, liberal, leftist party of violence. That's who's speaking up when you hear that. All right. We've got another full hour of the Wingman Wednesday edition of the Rod and Greg show right here on Utah's Talk Radio, 1059, KNRS. Stay with us. More to come. All right, we wanted to talk more about, I think, Greg, they'll never admit this. They think they have momentum behind them. But I get a sense that Democrats in this country are starting to run. Is it fair to say a little scared? Yeah. You know, with the redistricting taking place, I think they're, you know, everyone says, well, the Democrats have momentum on their side. I hope the Republicans get momentum on their side because I think we have a story to tell. And this redistricting, Issue that's going on in several states now, Greg, is going to throw everything into a tizzy. Except here in Utah. Whatever happened here, we don't know. Well, we do know what happened. Dirty Diana. We're in California, Democrat, Blue State, Virginia, Democrat, Blue State. And in Utah, Republican Red State are where they have gotten their gains. And how you get one lone red state, we got gamed. We absolutely got robbed. Again, these people should have a ski mask on and a gun in their hand when they took a seat, a congressional district away from the state of Utah. We only have four. They took one. But you know what? These are important. I didn't know. As much as I try to pay attention, I didn't understand that judges and the extreme interpretation of federal law like the Voter Rights Act helped artificially create 40 congressional districts in this country that state legislative bodies did not draw. That judges insisted upon and required the states to draw didn't know that. And if left to their own devices and how they put communities of interest together. These majority and minority districts are just certainly not a community of interest when looking at a whole state. And so now because of the gaming that's gone on for so long, there's 40 of these. 40 of these districts have been gameed. And then you think of all those open borders where they have, they add the pop, they count that population. They might not get to vote yet. Or maybe they do vote. We don't know. But the numbers are, the population number certainly draws the district. They're counting them as population to draw, to qualify as a congressional district. Even though they are here illegally, they get counted. Yeah. And so that's another gaming of our House of Representatives that have happened to put the thumb on the Democrats side of the scale. Well, I hope Republicans are paying attention because you had the Supreme Court ruling on the Voting Rights Act in the state of Louisiana.

Yes. And Louisiana rushed to get it done now. Supreme Court Ketanji Brown Jackson Jackson, whatever her name is, you know, tried to stop and say, well, there's normally a 32-day waiting period before they can do anything. Well, Samuel Alito steps in and goes, uh-uh. If they want to do it, they can do it right now, and they did. Ron DeSantis, moving quickly in the state of Florida. Indiana, I think, is going to move quickly now. Those who tried to block it paid the price last night. and lost the elections i think trump what were there there were six seats trump won five of trump back candidates in indiana might be behind the curve in that they don't take office till 27 those that won this in this primary however i don't think that's a lost cause obviously and i think that we do have a normal redistricting process that will be stepping up as we get to the end of the decade But I do think that there's momentum. I do think that we've seen the Democrats without apology and without media protest. Can Virginia, California, can do anything they want. It's always the Republicans and their legislative bodies where they just grasp their pearls and they just scream that this is wrong and everything else. I think that, you know, we have just, the Democrats, the leftists of this country have not telegraphed, they've just blatantly told us where they're going. If we get the majority in Congress, when we have the White House, we are going to add two states to the map. We're going to add Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C. That's going to be four senators. Four Supreme Court justices. Okay. We're going to, we're going to do away with the electoral college. We're going to do a national popular vote. We're going to stack the U.S. Supreme Court. If we can't get the votes we like, if it's a 6-3 ruling right now, we'll put, you know, we're going to go ahead and put four more on there to make it 7 to 6 so we can win the day. They've said they're going to do this. They call any decision they don't like illegitimate. So it is a, the window of opportunity is now for a Republican majority, albeit thin, narrow majority, to get some work done. And I think this redistricting effort and doing it fairly. is a great big part of the midterms to hold these majorities we need. Do you have that audio soundbite from the Idaho lawmaker who was upset with all of this? Have we got this hook? I don't have it. I don't have it. We'll get it queued up because you got to hear this guy because he says, oh, you know, whiny wart is what this guy is. He lost and he whined. This state senator in Indiana, in Indiana, I'm sorry. Indiana. In Indiana last night. was asked, what did you learn? Like, what was the takeaway? Because he lost by 20, he's an incumbent Republican state senator. He got whipped. He lost by 20%. And they asked him, you know, what's the takeaway here? And his answer is that retribution and revenge are not Christian values. And he went on to criticize the voters who voted him out. It was the voter's fault. The level of hubris it takes to lose by the numbers that he did and say, it's not me. It's them who voted who are the ones that are not Christ-like. Yeah. That is an anti-Christ sentiment that kicked me out of office because I was right all along. Don't you love it? How arrogant do you? And how, I mean, again, that is not a public servant you're hearing from. That is hubris. Yep. And it's something else. But he deserves to be voted out if that's his response. So they were upset with the vote he took. They vote him out of office. And he says it's against Christian values.

Yeah, revenge and retribution. Which is, wow, the reason he felt that he had lost is revenge and retribution. So. Well, guess what? Welcome to politics. I mean, it's not, and it's not revenge. You know what? You could point that direction to every vote. You know, and when the Democrats, when the Democrats see gains, they never say that's revenge or retribution. No. They always just say, look, the tide's turning, the MAGA. you know, era is over. They just celebrate it. All these votes are just from the heart. They're just pure. They're good. They're the right decision to make when they're on the wrong side of that vote. It's MAGA. I got a CNN clip, too, where it was MAGA, you know, took the elections hostage. And they took, and then they say, these are not Christlike values attribute. The reason I won is because people applied revenge and retribution. That's not Christlike. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. But it is politics. Yeah. Now, people can call it revenge. I call it accountability. Yeah. And I am just so happy to see, you know, the electorate holding their public servants, their elected's accountable for what they did when it comes to redistricting in Indiana. And where, Greg, does this leave Mike Pence? Bye-bye. Yeah, you were the governor of that state, and everyone chose not you. And how dumb does he feel that that state went 20% plus Trump as a state, Indiana did, and they can't get the districts redrawn fairly? He sides with the Democrats. He sides with the Democrats. And then in Virginia, where Kamala Harris wins by only 5%. They draw out every Republican district but one. By the way, what they did in Virginia was far more aggressive in terms of gaining Democrat seats than what Indiana would have done to gain Republican seats. Yeah. Pretty amazing. All right, we've got a lot more to say and to come right here on the Rod and Greg Show in Utah's Talk Radio 1059, KNRS. Install and you say after that. If you put that on your favorite buttons, that's all you need. It's a preset. Number two, you put the podcast on there. Yeah, after every show. If you didn't catch the show, we podcast it right away. Denny jumps right on it as soon as the show is done, and you can catch anything we've talked about today. Morning people wake up for peace and quiet. McDonald's breakfast people? We wake up for the sweet rush of getting that warm, delicious breakfast right before it ends. Hot cakes, sausage patty, hash browns, scrambled eggs, biscuit, real butter and syrup. You know how our big breakfast got its name, and you know where your whole family can share one for just $6. McDonald's. Limited time only, price and participation may vary cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal. So, folks, I want to brag on you, the listeners a little bit. So, you know, we bring up these issues. We talk about them. The feedback, talk back live, calls that come in, communications that come in from listeners, it's always good. I've never seen it. This is why I believe in a public process in this collective conversation. I have a listener who pointed out, and this is, I would say this is an elected official. Yes.

But an important bill that was passed, HB 76 in this last session. House Bill 76. House Bill 76. Listen to the title of this bill. It's the data center water transparency amendments. Okay. And to our point about how can you... How can you verify? You can say anything you want, but you can get left at the altar. You can say that, you know, everything's going to be fine. Don't worry. But then when rubber hits the road, nobody's around. And they're saying it's not going to impact water. We'll recycle the water. That's what they're saying at the status center in Boxelder County. Now, you have a question, well, how do we know? How do we hold their feet to the fire on this one? That's right. And there has to be some enforcement, some monitoring and enforcement mechanism. Let me just give you some quick. bullet points from the bill that passed, and it passed with a large bipartisan majority. It directs the land use authorities to issue certain notices, requires that large data centers communicate with water providers, requires reporting by operators of large data centers before construction, and then annually addresses disclosure of the reported information, provides for enforcement mechanisms, addresses rulemaking, and makes that information. public records. So it's a state law that says you have to do this. That is a state law. And I would argue, and I haven't read the, you know, that's the, that's kind of at the top of the bill that gives you kind of its details. As you get in the bill, you look at the underlying language of existing statute to get, see what it says. What I would tell you at best is, is this is your, this is your, this is your, this is the framework of which you would then even provide more detail and more information. But at least you know now, I know now. There is a state bill, there is a state law that was passed in this last session that contemplates reporting. The, you know, not before construction and annually. There is making it a public record. There are enforcement, enforcement mechanisms in this bill as well. I haven't read what they are, but at least we know this is the structure of it. And then, you know, every, whether it's the service district of MITA, whether they can come up with more specificity on what they want. And by the way, I keep thinking, this Kevin O'Leary, he's supposed to be on Shark Tank. Isn't everything in negotiation? Yeah. They're not walking away from Utah. Go negotiate this down to the detail you want. And I'm telling you, they're not going to see a lot of, this is something that can be done right. But you've got to know the details to know what you think is good or not. We had another listener that said, look, you keep talking Hughes about all this federal land. Yeah. Put those 62 square miles on federal land. Why does it have to be? There's an idea. Why does it have to be, you know. Private property. Yeah. You know, staring me right in the face that issue. I would like to be in a public hearing and hear the answer to that. I think that's a brilliant. When I see the map that Utah, if you look at the federal land, it's mostly red, which represents the federal land. It begs the question, why wouldn't you use, especially with a national security issue? My guess, never get approved. I wonder. On federal land. I wonder if it's a national security issue. It would never get approved on federal land. Now, maybe under the current administration, it may.

But under other administrations, I don't know if it'd get approved. It's an interesting concept. And again, these are, you know, this bill and that question from another listener of ours about you got so much federal land, why 62 square miles seems like it fit nicely within all the federal land. Well, and here, this goes along with what you were saying earlier, Greg. If you're the proponent of this and you're pushing for this project and you hear questions being raised about water, okay? Refer them to HB 76. They should lead with this. This is a state law that we have to follow, provide updates to you for, so we have to follow this law or we'll face our consequences. That's the story. They need to dispel the public in Bucks Elder County who are concerned about water impact. We have to follow this law or will be fine for this. I would argue that there is more discussion going on on this program right now. with our listeners, then citizens have been able to draw from a public hearing. And I'm telling you, it's a mistake. It's a mistake on all fronts that they are not. I understand there's protesters there to interrupt meetings. I get that part. But what we're talking about here, these are important details to understand. These are important things that need to be part of that conversation to build the public trust and show that this could either be an incredible opportunity, if done right. or something that you don't want. But again, I go back to if I'm going to say that I'm tired of offshoring, I'm tired of foreign interest controlling everything in our lives, from manufacturing to pharmaceuticals to the rare minerals that are mined and processed. It doesn't seem consistent to me to say data centers, AI, get out of Utah, get out of America. We don't want you. Go to, go somewhere, but don't, you're not doing it here. I don't know that that's the approach, but I do think you've got to get the details right. State lawmakers will hate me for saying this, but if you live in Boxelter County, call your state lawmaker and say, can you tell me about HB, what is, HB 76? HB 76. I'd like to know how that would protect us from losing water. Data center. Data Center Water Transparency Amendments. Just put a bow on it. I mean, I don't know why everyone didn't lead with this. Again, I haven't read it all the way every line, but I'm telling you that you at least have the structure, the statutory structure to get this right, things that we've already been talking about. Does it say who sponsored the bill? You have looked at the bill yet. Who's the sponsor? Representative Jill Cofford and Senator Scott Sandel. Yeah. Some foresight into this. Absolutely. They know the data centers are coming. Look, these poor box elder commissioners, they didn't think of this. They didn't plan this. They have a very, they haven't a role, but they've somehow become the tip of the spear on all of it. This is the state leaders, the governor, legislative leaders, they've been. contemplating something this big and of this scale and size and trying to get it right, I just think that conversation has to happen with the public. Yeah. With the earnest and like the genuine public that one answers, not the ones that are just against everything or the environmentalists or the leftist. Nate Bluin was there. The guy running for, you know, that second district from Salt Lake City. He's, he was at that meeting to raise.

Kane. And I don't know that he was looking for real answers himself. I think he was there to protest. He's got a campaign to run. Yeah, he's running a campaign of what he's doing. All right, more coming up, the Rod and Greg Show on Utah's Talk Radio 1059, KNRS. Jesse always has some interesting things to say. Oh, always. And he's, I just love. He pulls no punches. Oh, he is, I, you know, if people think I'm brutally honest, I am Gandhi compared to Jesse Kelly. Okay, I am, I am just like, you know, peace, love, and harmony and just, just warm and fuzzy. Yeah. Because he just, he just let you have it. And I'm not saying it in a bad way. I kind of, I absolutely love it. He holds nothing back. That's for sure. Well, you know, many states, including Utah, Greg, over the past, what, year or two, have had discussions about cell phones and classrooms. Yes. It's been a big debate over the years about cell phones and classes. Well, we're finally getting a chance to take a look at the research. Did they have an impact? And there was a story, I think the New York Times did it. The Washington Post also did it, basically saying that school cell phone bans don't affect test scores or don't affect attendance. So the results are kind of mixed as whether or not they're having much of an impact on kids having cell phones in school. That's right. Don't we have a bell to bell one? We do. It's a new. It's a new one and it's being implemented in schools. And I think they gave them some latitude on how to implement it. They might have firmed that up a little bit in the last session, maybe got some specificity to it. But yeah, there's an ongoing discussion. And is it just the phones themselves? Yeah. There's other issues. Yeah, there are other issues. As a matter of fact, I'm glad you brought that up because school issued technology. And I guess like Chromebooks or something like that, I see some kids coming out of school apparently all carrying their little bags and they have laptops in them. And that's what they use in the classroom. Our next guest says those laptops and other school-issued technology. can be just as distracting as smartphones. Joining us on our newsmaker line right now to talk about this is Martin Friedenthal. He is an educator and a journalist. Martin, thanks for joining us tonight. What are your thoughts on other school technology the impact is having on students other than cell phones? Talking about the district-issued Chromebooks and tablets that are assigned to students. In the district that I work in, a lot of them, or Texas, they're given out to students of old grade. And so it's kind of interesting how when the year that Texas officially banned it, they have these Chromebooks, and they're just kind of there. And my whole point is kind of, I wouldn't say equally as distracting, but they are sort of problematic. And I think they make. Sometimes they make the band seem quite dubious based on my own experience. So you've hit on something that resonates with me. So way, way back in the day when we saw technology in the education space emerging, they said, look, instead of a textbook that shows you a historical site, a tablet can actually let a student explore and look at the site and maybe move the camera around or see it in real time. There's this component of self-taught.

You can self-teach yourself. You can learn and kind of dive down into certain details. This self-learning is going to be revolutionary to education. Fast forward to today, I don't see scores better. I don't see where all these things that looked convincing at the time. I haven't seen it play out. Are there advantages to technology in our classroom, or was that just maybe too much optimism? Well, it's interesting you mentioned that there was no progress. The New York Times actually did a little story that came out, I think, a day or two ago, and it said that just that what you said is that they really haven't seen any progress in test scores since they've banned them. I mean, they've banned them in various ways since 2016, but since they've recently done it, they really haven't seen that in test scores increase. So that's kind of making it. why, you know, bands don't really work, and then you have this bringing in the Chromebooks and tablets, which kind of makes it even more problematic. It's interesting, you mentioned sort of mapping component, because in my classroom, I do see a lot of kids using it to look up stuff, and they are sort of able to teach themselves. some things, and of course they're able to experiment with AI, and that's very interesting. As I mentioned in my article, I think that's kind of the whole point of why we want to have some form of exposure technology, because it's going to expose them the things that they're going to encounter in their life. They're going to be surrounded by AIH just reality, the workforce, and the environment that they're going to be coming into when they... you know, in this century, it's been accommodated. So I think that has a sort of benefit, but it's just doing it at the moment when you're banning cell phones is, to me, is very problematic. Martin, have teachers become almost too dependent on Chromebooks where, you know, if they use them for a certain area, fine, but have they become too dependent on other technologies in the classroom? I wouldn't say so. I mean, from what I look at, I think they try to not use them because they're so kind of clunky. And another thing I pointed out in my article is there's a lot of, you know, faulty URLs. There's just always issues with loading assignments. I think secretly teachers like the pen and paper. I think they like the physical aspects and, you know, right, we don't have any chalkboards anymore, but we have dry race boards. And, you know, there's some interesting ways. integrate the technology to it. And I saw one history teacher do something interesting. Basically had, you know, an AI chat thought, rewrite, decoration of independence and, you know, kind of a cool kid's language. And there seems interesting things with technology that can make it work. I think it really is, I think it's a little bit more distracting than we would like. And that would districts would like to admit. So, Martin, I'm what you call a technology. Well, some would say an immigrant. I'd call myself a refugee when it comes to technology. But the students that you teach your technology natives, they don't know a world without it. They've had technology around them. They've never known the analog world. Do you think it's possible? And you would know, can students go to an old school or a different way of education delivery that does not include phones, tablets, Chromebooks?

Is that even possible with our technology natives, these young kids, who don't know any world other than with technology? That's a good question. I think it's possible in kids because they are so resilient and they can just kind of adapt. I think better than adults to a lot of situations. Kids are quite resilient. So I think they can. I mean, kids change all the time, different types of schools, to traditional, to homeschool, to Montessori, all that kind of stuff. I think we could. try something like that. And I think if you did it early enough, I mean, if you want their junior in high school and they're taking their AP test, you know, a bit late, but I think there is a point, even in middle school, which is where I primarily teach, that if you, you know, implement the right strategies technique, then you could have a good result. And I'd be happy to see that. Martin, our final question for you, are you aware of any school in the country that has said no technology in the classroom? We're going to go back to books, reading books, I mean the real books, paper and pencil to take notes and to figure out problems. Has any school done that? And if so, what has been the result? I can't name particular schools at the top of my head. I know there are, well, there's one kind of near me. It's called the founders classical academy. And I know there's one in, I think it's Flower Mountain, Texas. And they're pretty traditional kind of pen and paper type stuff. And I've heard some good things about them. And I think they're having a lot of good experiences with that. One thing I don't know about any specific school, but I've heard from the research that. teachers are reporting that socially kids are having better friend experiences. You know, they're talking during recess. They're talking more during the cafeteria and the lunch. So there's just kind of an environment around schools that have tried to take away phones that are a little bit better and that, you know, it kind of creates a really good experience of the kind that you're talking about where it was more analog. And so there are schools where I think teachers are kind of noticing that.

Technology in the classroom with Martin Friedenthal. Interesting points, I mean. How about technology on our board? We couldn't even get on air right there. That was a little bit of a delay. We got on there. We just didn't push the button fast enough. Technology wasn't right. I think we have a technology problem. Do you have any technology in your, you're several years younger now? Did you have technology in your classroom? Absolutely not. Yeah, we got pencils, paper. If you wanted to communicate to someone, it was called a note. Yeah. And then you like make it into. Remember passing notes? Oh, you know what I did? You fold it into a triangle and kick like a little football. Remember passing notes to each other? Yeah. Yep. We couldn't do that because we had stones and tablets. Yeah, exactly. Yours are, you know, hieroglyphics is your, you know, conduit of communication back then. We had to sharpen our own pencils, stuff like that. So, yeah, no, no technology, thankfully. I mean, we didn't even have, I think fax machines were just starting to come out when I was. Really? Remember fax machines? And the paper was, it wasn't even plain paper fax. It was like, oh, that weird. Yeah, that weird. It was on a roll. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's a lot of people that don't know what I'm talking about right now. Unfortunately, that's probably true. It is. I worked on Presidential Campaign 88. We had a filing cabinet alphabetically listed of position papers on positions listed by alphabetical order. And there was no database. There was no cloud. There was nothing to refer. You had to go to the literal filing cabinet and every folder had multiple copies of it. So you could just pull it out, fax it or read it or whatever you need to do. But that's what I'm. I think I learned a lot about politics when I was 18 at that campaign, state campaign office, reading through all those issues alphabetically. Some of my I didn't even know were issues. I'm like, what? That's an issue? Got to have a stand on almost everything. All right, more coming up. Final segment. Final thoughts on the Rod and Greg Show and Talk Radio 105.9, KNRS. What I love about our listeners is we learn things from now. Oh, my goodness. They educate us on all kinds of things every day. I love it. The conversation that we have on a daily basis, I think it's second and not. I just thoroughly enjoy it, and I appreciate our listeners. Are you ready for a wild story? Yeah. This would scare the daylights out of anybody, okay? A Harding University professor, I guess that's in Arkansas. Never heard it before. Discovered a stranger had been living in the basement of their home. after noticing items mysteriously going missing each and every day. They realized they had a guy living in the basement of their home. He didn't know he was there. You know what I say to that? What? Get a smaller home. If you got, what do you got a sweatshop down there too? You got child labor making tennis shoes down there? How do you not know someone's in your basement? Well, the guy, his name is a Dutch Hoggart, Hogat, he's in Arkansas, said he first suspected something was off when he noticed a pair of his shoes. which he normally leaves near the home's back door were gone. And he asked his wife, do you throw my shoes away? She goes, no. And then they started noticing that other items like furniture was being moved around and then food was disappearing. And this is a guy who's living in their home. So how long, does it mention how, what's the incubation period for this? This is a couple days? Is this inside of a week? He apparently had been secretly living inside the home for several days.

moving from a crawl space into the basement before the family finally discovered him. That's kind of a, that could be a haunted story. How did they find it? I don't, does the same. If I heard someone down there and I didn't think, it could be supernatural. I don't know what I, I think, I don't know, that would be kind of freaky. Well, they have, they have their daughter and their son-in-law living in the home at the same time. Yeah, get a big, get a smaller house. You clearly not in charge of the whole house. There's people living there doing their own thing. You don't even know about it. This is why you need a dog. A dog would find that. Well, a dog would sniff that out. There's no living in someone's basement if you got a good pup on the job. What's your dog saying? Ruby. She's good. She looks scary, but she thinks she's pretty. She has no idea she looks like a scary dog. Oh. She thinks she's pretty. But she is scary. If you saw her, you would think she's. She's scary. The guy had made a little bed for himself downstairs with boxes and everything. I mean, he lived in their house for several days. He's got a microwave. He's got a little man fridge in there. He's just like, just camped out. They didn't realize that he was even there. Took him several days. Well, shame on him for taking shoes and stuff. Like, you could have been a little bit more clandestine on his side. You know, I used to have a thing years ago. I used to call the stupid crook file. Yeah. Because Crooks are not the smartest people in the world. Here's another example. He had a good thing going, too. He could have lived there forever. Like I said, he could have had a sweatshop operating down there, made some money on the side or made money, and they would have never known. It doesn't sound like they were paying close attention. Terrifying discovery. Wouldn't that freak you out? And I'm telling you, that's why you got to have a dog. Get a dog. All right. That doesn't have it for us tonight. Head out and shoulders back. May God bless you and your family in this great, great country of ours. Have a good Wednesday. We're back tomorrow live from Mickey Couture in Draper. We'll talk to you.