The Rod and Greg Show: Justice Dept. Vow to Crack Down on Birth Tourism; Steve Moore Economic Update

Hey everybody, Lady Luck here, and we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now, all summer long, I'm going to be celebrating by playing on SpinQuest.com, which is an American-owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to SpinQuest.com. Get yourself a $30 coin pack for just $10.00. SpenQuest is a free-to-play social casino. Avoid where prohibited. Visit SpenQuest.com for more details. It's called the Conference of State Governments, West. It's Western states that pick a state every year to have their big annual conference. It's happening in Salt Lake City today, in Utah this week. And I was on a panel with former colleagues and people from the executive branch and the legislative branch. And then a very nice minority leader, Republican minority leader from the House in Hawaii. Wow. Talking about just. How you get hard bills passed and if it's close and if tempers rise, how do you work through it all? Can you imagine me talking about? about diplomacy. Being a peacemaker. Being kinder and gentler. I said at some point, I was talking about it a little bit. I said, I'm not even comfortable in my skin if I don't just admit to you now that I would walk in that Senate and go, is there a gas leak in here? Why are you all so slow? What is happening? Hurry up. We got bills. We got to get past. Well, I heard today you were the star of the show. No, you did not. Yes, I did. You can say that. You know, the reviews poured in. It was like, he's absolutely fantastic. As if I need to stroke your ego anymore. I did enjoy it. that panel a lot you got you had we had a fun time some people that i don't see or talk to as much and it was just fun to kind of reminisce a little bit but also talk about process because i do i am a big subscriber to process when we see a legislature you are but this is a bigger story I've never cheered for France and all of my life. But the World Cup hijacked our channel. And so we were playing the France versus Morocco game. And we were all looking at this going, if this thing goes zero zero at the end, then they have this crazy. And I didn't know this till today. 15 minutes of overtime. And then another 15. And it doesn't even matter if someone's winning in that overtime, you'd do another 15 minutes on top of that. Don't know why you just don't do 30, but there's all these new rules. And we could have lost the first hour of this show. So when France scored. We cheered. We cheered. I cheered for France. It's almost like... Very unnatural for you to cheer for. No, I think it's the first time in my life I ever cheered for France. So we're back. We got a full show today. Yes. It meant that we'll have a full show. That's what we wanted today. I was very excited. Amanda, we have a lot of talk about the president just made a request. One that is rarely made, and we'll tell you what that is here coming up with just a few minutes. A little bit later on in the show, we'll talk about what Gavin Newsom is doing in California when it comes to blaming someone else on high gas prices, not the state of California. We'll get into that. And what a hearing today down in Provo. This, of course, in the trial of Tyler Robinson, who was accused of killing Charlie Kirk. And all of a sudden, Greg, criticism, a lot of it.

Now being directed at the Judge Tony Graff. Yeah, so Tony Grav, by the way, I don't know, have I mentioned this on the air? Yeah, you know him. Yeah, you know him. He was a house staffer a long time, before he even went to law school. And so I've known him, and I was, he'd only been a judge for five months when he was randomly selected for cases, only the biggest court case maybe in Utah's history in terms of, and so he's at the helm. And I know Tony Grave, and anyway, there's just some, there's some. If you go back in the days of court TV and watching the OJ Simpson trial, Lance Edo was the judge. And people thought that the judge Edo was unnecessarily prolonging the process. It was taking too long. And there are now what a preliminary hearing typically takes about two days to roll out the evidence. We're down to five days. And comparisons to Judge Lance Eto are starting to be made. about our judge here in Utah, Tony Graff. Remember the Dancing Edos on Jay Leno show? Wasn't that funny? That was good. That's when late night was actually good. Yeah, that was a long time ago. So we'll get into that. So we got a lot to get to today. And as always, you can be a part of our discussion. 888-5708010 cell phone dial pound 250 and say, hey, Rod, or leave us a message on the talkback line. Now, the breaking story this afternoon. That's pretty interesting one, Greg. President Trump today announced that he is going to. to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to rehear the birthright citizenship case after it ruled against it just last month. So is this news broke just before the show began, or I had just heard about an hour ago or so, I was unaware that this was a thing. I did not know that you could say, hey, we want to redo. You know, you just did your 5-4 vote. We want you to just turn around right away and maybe reconsider. But it turns out that... Not unusual. So we reported on the show, what was yesterday or day before, that these billboards are popping up. And they are now, as the leftists would do because they're not self-aware, they are now promoting this birthright citizenship. tourism concept where there have billboards where you can have babies there and come from another country and get yourself an American citizen right out the other side well he's fuming and he's fuming on truth social where he normally does this is what he said Greg referring to that signs and billboards are being put up all over our southern border and Mexico advertising birthright citizenship with delivery starting at $4,000 enough is enough and we need to stop this and as I recall Greg When this decision was handed down what? Just about a week ago, right? Yep. That everyone is saying, look out. This is going to lead to some unbelievable situations, and we see one developing right now. By the way, we understand the billboards are now down because the hospital that was advertising was getting so much heat. But not only the president, the governor, Greg Abbott, from the great state of Texas, come out, saying, we're going to do something about this. I mean, they had a website, like have a baby in Texas.com. It was insane.

And what really bugged me at 4,000 of delivery in 2026, when my daughter, who's 27 right now, I was in my late 20s, it was in excess of $5,000 then of your so-called deductible with your health insurance to have a baby. And, you know, so we paid way north of $4,000. Yeah. way back when this is bargain basement getting it four thousand dollars to have a have this and so you you're not just incentivizing people to have themselves a nice american citizen in the family by coming across and having the baby they're they're giving it away yeah this price is ridiculous now remember gray i forgot about this this issue was so important to the president He actually attended the Supreme Court hearing on this issue. Remember that? He sat in on that hearing. He continued on truth social today by saying, not sustainable. Nobody saw this coming. I think a lot of people did. American citizenship is not for sale. In fact, that it is a crime. And therefore, the Supreme Court's ruling is wrong. I'll be asking for a rehearing by the Supreme Court immediately. I think he has like 27 or 28 days, something like that. So there is a period where you can ask the Supreme Court to reconsider. They can. There's a lever for that to happen. In a 5-4 narrow vote like that, the only one I can spot that would be open to maybe changing their mind would be Justice Amy Coney Barrett. I mean, she might be the one. I don't think, I don't think Chief John Roberts is changing his mind. No, and you know the liberals. The liberals aren't. So she's the one that has been touted as the originalist in terms of what the Constitution says. We know the way it's applied today is not the reason it was in our Constitution to begin with. So I was surprised by her vote originally. Seeing these billboards, seeing the gross manipulation of that, of how it's being interpreted. She's really, she would be the only, only justice that would be in play in my mind. Well, there are some social media posts out there today, which is indicating she is bothered by what she saw down in Texas. Now, if that's going to be enough to swear or vote, again, it's just social media stuff out there, but who knows? Maybe this will change your mind. You have to imagine that they did talk about this, this, this tourism, you know, these birth tourism or whatever they're calling it. So we knew it existed or that this was something that was happening. Now you're seeing the bill. Now you're just seeing them double down, triple down. Now that they got the Supreme Court ruling, they've gone. I mean, it's just gotten bigger. very, very quickly. Yeah, well, we'll follow that and keep up coming up when we come back. As a matter of fact, we're telling you, we're on tell you about what the DOJ is doing about birthright citizenship and cracking down on the birthright centers. That's coming up here on the Rodin-Greg show in Utah's talk radio, 1059, K&RS Live Everywhere, of course, on the IHeart Radio. It's going to get a little hotter this weekend. I know that's something you all wanted to hear. Big news, breaking news this afternoon. The president is now demanding the U.S. Supreme Court reexamine the...

birthright citizenship case, calling it a miscarriage of justice. This comes after signs and billboards went up in Texas on our southern border advertising birthright citizenship deliveries. at a cost starting at $4,000. Well, the DOJ, Department of Justice, announced last week in light of the birthright citizenship hearing, that they were going to crack down on birthright centers. Joining us on our newsmaker line to find out exactly what they're going to do is Andrew Arthur, otherwise known as Art, resident fellow in law and policy at the Center for Immigration Studies. Art, thank you very much. What did the DOJ mean when they say they're going to crack down, and what do you expect to happen? Just my way of background, birth tourism is when a foreign national applies for what we call a non-immigrant visa, a tourist visa, or a business visa, potentially a student visa, to come to the United States, not so much to be a tourist or engage in business or go to school, but instead to give birth to a United States citizen on U.S. soil. And under the Supreme Court's decision in Barbara. Any child who's born here from this point forward, as was true in the past, is going to be a United States citizen. Now, the issue with those birth tourists is those parents who come here specifically to give birth is that they normally engage in fraud, and they normally have to engage in some shady dealings with criminals in order to get to the United States to facilitate that. So they have to lie to the... A consular officer abroad when they're applying for the visa, they have to, you know, tell certain lies to the inspector at the airport on the way into the United States. And lying for purposes of obtaining an immigration benefit is a crime. It's a very serious crime. It's a 10-year felony, up to 10-year felony. under 18 U.S. Code Section 1546. And so what DOJ is doing, what the Deputy Attorney General's office has directed U.S. attorneys to do is to go after those parents, you know, who come here who lie in the course of that process, and especially to investigate and target the companies that are assisting them on their way to the United States, places that will. run, you know, hotels for mothers to stay prior to birth in the United States, you know, receive care so that they could deliver that child in the United States. And also to provide some postnatal care, provide travel accommodations and things like that. So birth tourism is really the lowest hanging fruit out of the Supreme Court's decision. It's the one thing that we can all as American sort of. agree is an abuse of our humanitarian immigration system. And so that's where DOJ is targeting its fire right now. So birth tourism has not been a legal practice, but it's been done under false premise to allow it to happen. Is that what you're saying? Or can someone come through the front door up until now and say, yeah, we're doing this specifically so that this child that's born is an American citizen?

Yeah, great. And, you know, that's part of the problem is that under the Department of State rules, consular officers are generally encouraged not to ask women whether they are pregnant or whether they're coming to the United States in order to give birth specifically to give birth in this country. But the whole idea behind a non-immigrant visa is that you're coming for a specific purpose. And... that you have a domicile abroad, that you have no intention of abandoning. Now, of course, if you come here and you give birth to a kid, and that kid's going to grow up in the United States. You plainly don't intend to, you know, permanently reside back home. And so there are various lies that people will tell in the course of that process. They'll come up with some other reason when they, you know, for why they want to come to the United States. They'll show up with strange amounts of money, often well in excess of, you know, your typical trip to Disney World or, you know, to see the Great Salt Lake, you know, or, you know, they will. lie about their final destination in the United States. And if you drill down on those things, both that the, you know, if we free up the consular officers to ask those questions. And Customs and Border Protection officers at the ports, you know, start to ask some uncomfortable questions. Those people will either, you know, have to lie, in which case they incur a potential criminal penalty or alternatively, they'll tell the truth. And at that point, you know, it's going to be up to CBP to decide whether they should be allowed in. So this really is a gray area in the law, but it's primarily a gray area because various administrations in the past. haven't really decided to target it. DOJ, six hours almost in the minute after the Supreme Court issued its order, made it a priority, and so the U.S. attorneys have their marching orders. Let me ask you this, Art, and this may be a really bizarre question, but if law enforcement suspects something, but the woman lies, but they still suspect it, could they require her to take a pregnancy test? You know, it's really, it's a great question, Rob, because when you're talking about intrusive things like that, it's, you know, they would have to get a court order in order to do that. And there's really no good mechanism for them to get that sort of court order. If the alien refuses to take the test, and, you know, it may be an uncomfortable situation, maybe a political hazard, you know, because the press is going to report on it. Oh, my God, you know, it felt like international. They're now making every woman a childbearing age take a pregnancy test. So, yeah, I mean, it's one of those things that's never been highlighted in the past simply because of the sensitivity, you know, that our culture puts on.

pregnancy generally and women's health issues. So, you know, it's been a gray area in the past. We're going to have to see how they apply, you know, this new policy going forward, but expect to see some, you know, high profile cases in the news. You know, what I don't understand is that. Well, the test I can see maybe intrusives. No one's ever worried when I've gone into a different country and I go through customs. They ask me questions that make me feel uncomfortable. Who are you? Where are you staying? What hotel? Why are you here? They ask you a lot of questions. Why can't you ask the people that are coming in to a test, you know, and by penalty of perjury or lie? Are you pregnant or not? Yes or no. If they say no, they're not and a baby comes. then they lied on their application, and that alone should send them out, right? Yeah, and, you know, it's funny, Greg, because when I was a young trial attorney in San Francisco in the middle 90s, I had a person who had shown up four times at SFO, who had four times checked into a California charity hospital, who had four times given birth, and who had four times gotten a passport for their child. And, you know, Yeah, you know, I was a young attorney, you know, not the wizened old man that I am now. And yet I was still able to convince the judge that, you know, this was a person who had violated the terms of her admission. And that was because the then immigration and naturalization service pressed the issue. There's no reason not to ask the questions, not to press the issue. And, you know, as I said before, this is low-hanging fruit. This is the one thing that we can all kind of agree. is skeezy, which is how we would refer to it, uh, in law enforcement. And you know, it's, it's appropriate for them to do it, especially since. And this is important. Many of these women, and the Senate Homeland Security Committee actually did a report on this back in 2022. Many of these women end up giving birth a taxpayer expense. Either, you know, they don't pay any of the hospital bill or, you know, they get a write off for a big chunk of it. And, you know, at that point, it's U.S. taxpayers that are paying for it. This isn't a victimless crime. This is a crime that impacts every American taxpayer. Andrew Art Arthur. He is a resident fellow at Law and Policy talking about DOJ cracking down on birth tourism. More of The Rod and Greg Show coming up. Forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on SpinQuest. And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10. All the table games you love with hundreds of slot games and real cash prizes. That's at SpinQuest.com. SpinQuest.com. SpinQuest is a free-to-play social casino. Avoid where prohibited. Visit SpenQuest.com for more details.

Yeah, and it's unfortunate because people in Utah didn't vote for the elected officials in California that have done them to them. They're being bad neighbors. You've gone from 40 refineries in California to less than, or you have seven now. There'll be five by the end of the year. The slide continues. And they're importing oil. They've also stopped oil production. They used to be the third largest producer of oil in the United States, producing oil more responsibly than anywhere else on the planet. And what do they do? They strangle those producers. and depend now on Iraq and Brazil for massive amounts of oil to go to the refineries that they have left. So it's just completely backwards policy. But this is what happens when you have people that bend the knee to the ESG climate cartel. Jason, why don't Californians grab their pitchforks and their torches and revolt and say we've had enough? Is there anything they can do? Well, I think they've grabbed their U-Hauls instead and are fleeing the state. And so that may be just the easier, cost-effective way to do this. But you get off away from the coastal elites and they overwhelmingly oppose these policies. And until you have free and fair elections in California, you're going to continue to see this. I mean, are the L.A. votes still coming in? Is Spencer Pratt still in third place? You know, I mean, it's just you've got to have election integrity. So here's the thing. The deflection that Gavin Newsom is able to do, I guess it works in California. Does it work nationally? Some people point to him as a potential candidate for president. Can he explain away his mismanagement of that state to the point where he'd be an attractive candidate for president? Only to the left in blue states like Oregon and Washington where they've implemented similar plans that California has the low carbon fuel standards. That does nothing to mitigate a changing climate just makes everything more expensive. Again, costing their taxpayers 25 cents a gallon. And something that we petition, the American Energy Institute petition the EPA on, other states don't have the authority, the constitutional authority to implement this low carbon fuel standards. California is the only one in the Clean Air Act. And the EPA could get rid of it overnight and help blue states lower the cost of gasoline. It's Oregon, it's Washington, it's New Mexico. It's 11 other blue states that are thinking about implementing this plan that just drives up the cost. And so they can bring in more money to the state to hand out to their friends in the climate alarmist movement, give them grants like we saw in the Biden administration so that they can send the climate corps out to people and shame them into having air conditioning. It's unbelievable. Jason, as always great to have me on the show for a few minutes. Thank you. Great to be on. Thanks for having me. All right. On our newsmaker line, Jason Isaac, he is a founder, CEO of the American Energy Foundation. $2.40 of the price of gasoline in California goes to Texas, state taxes, or green energy efforts. $2.40 a gallon. It is so beyond the pale. And the problem with California has always been, they have always been egregiously expensive. It didn't start with Trump and it didn't start with the conflict in Iran. You can't say that with a straight face. No, you cannot. All right. More coming up on the Rod and Greg show. It's good to be with you on this Thursday afternoon. Weekend coming up. Well, Greg, it is official. Palm Beach International Airport in Florida has been formally rechristened.

President Donald J. Trump International Airport. I saw this idea. This is a wonderful day. Yeah. I think that's a, I think that's a great. I'm glad they did it. You know, Ronald Reagan, did you notice that the Reagan National, which is the airport in Washington, D.C., that during Barack Obama's time, they called it, they just called it national. Really? I didn't know that. Really? They refused to recognize Reagan. Yep. They called it national. They didn't call it Reagan. Should we be surprised at all? No, we shouldn't. No. I'm curious to see. I hope that the Donald J. Trump International Airport, and where is it at in Palm Beach? Palm Beach, which apparently, let's see, is about five miles west of Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort. So it's not very far from this homeland floor. I hope it stands the test of time. Now, what they couldn't do in D.C. is they couldn't take that bronze statue of Reagan that you see as you enter into the airport. You can't take that away. Can't take that away. So even though they wouldn't use the name Reagan National. uh the statue remained do you know they tried to do the same thing down in uh in los angeles the orange county airport is john wayne airport yes big bronze statue of the duke yes they tried to remove that as well at one time did they really they wanted to change the name isn't the houston airport named after george w bush george herbert walker bush i think it is no his hobby Hey everybody, Lady Luck here, and we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now, all summer long, I'm going to be celebrating by playing on SpinQuest.com, which is an American-owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to SpinQuest.com. Get yourself a $30 coin pack for just $10.00. SpendQuest is a free-to-play social casino. Avoid where prohibited. Visit SpenQuest.com for more details. These days, it's getting harder and harder to trust what you're seeing. Who made it? Is it real? But with iHeart, everything you hear is guaranteed human. That's why 78% of listeners trust their favorite radio hosts product recommendations. And if you own or manage a business here or need to drive sales, that trust goes a long way in creating your future customers. Make iHeart media a part of your 2026 plan today. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Again, that's 844-844-I-Hart. Oh, it is? Yeah, I think it is. Something like that. Yeah. But Trump, and I think he is the first... sitting president to ever have an airport named after him. Well, we would have had a state road named after Donald J. Trump in my time, but my good colleague made the thing 100 miles long seriously. And it's just like, Mike Noel? Yes, cowboy Mike Noel from King County made this thing 100 miles. And the fiscal note for the signs alone. And it was just too much. It didn't make it. All right. The judge in Provo getting some criticism tonight.

We'll talk about that coming up next. Stay with us. The nation, a lot of the nation's attention right now is focused on Provo in the preliminary hearing for Tyler Robinson. He is the man accused of assassinating Charlie Kirk. The prosecution apparently, I thought it saw a headline a while ago, Greg, has now apparently rested their case in this. I don't know what the defense does. If they bring counter, it's just what people need to understand. This is not a trial. No. It is a preliminary hearing. All the judge has to say is there's enough evidence here now. Let's take it to trial. That's all he has to say. Yeah. It's a lower bar than it obviously than a hearing. Yeah. But it's being stretched out over five days. We're seeing commentary that this does not have to be as drawn out in as long as it is. But you see a defense team that's trying to. protest, I think lips moving. I think lips moving by the prosecution is an objection by the defense team in this preliminary hearing this whole week. It has now been more than 300 dates since Charlie Kirk was shot. And I'm telling you what's coming out in the preliminary hearing is, you know, just confessions and DNA and witnesses that have heard. And video, you name it, it's there. And a lot of this was reported around the time that this had occurred. And so it's always been odd to me that anybody was saying that this was really Israel. This was a secret Israel thing that they did. They didn't like Charlie Kirk. He was turning on him. So Israel went and assassinate him. And I'm thinking, I think there's a lot with this kid, just attached. I can't think of an alternative reality where this kid would be in all the places he was at that isn't for the reasons that he's being accused of. So it's always been odd. And I don't know, again, why it's, you can say it's the defense, but the judge, Judge Tony Graff, he either lets them. continue to do this or he can admonish them as well so well tony graff is now starting to take a lot of heat in the way he's handling this i've i've been listening throughout the day to a number of experts on fox news so-called experts but these are these are well-educated attorneys who've been involved in in courtroom proceedings i want you to listen to this exchange this was on um I think it was outnumbered on Fox News this morning. John Yo, who's been on there before. We've had John on the show over the years, along with Donna Rotunno, who's down there in Provo, and they got talking about Judge Graft, and his ability or lack of ability right now, they think, to control this trial. Is this guy going to be another Lance Eto? You might remember the judge from the O.J. Simpson trial. This might be ancient history for some of us. This guy was so blinded by the glare of the publicity. He was so uncertain how to run the courtroom that Johnny Carter, the defense walked all over him when it came time for the trial and led to, I think, the most incredible acquittal despite all the evidence. Do you see that this judge is actually not managing the courtroom effectively, that he's letting the defense get away with these incredible claims that are now extending the hearing many, many days beyond what it would be normal for a preliminary hearing?

I do, and I also think that this judge at any point, John, he can say finding a probable cause, right? He can stop all this. He can say, I've heard enough evidence, there's enough to move this case onto trial, and we don't need to be continuing along this path because I've heard what I need to hear at this juncture. But you're right, he does run the risk of becoming a judge, Edo. And what we are watching here is that he is not taking control. I can't think of a judge out there who would want to be compared to Judge Alancito. And the dancing edos. The dancing edos on the Jay Leno show years ago. Yeah, no, so that's the thing is, and here's the history of it. He would, Judge Tony Graff was nominated to be a judge by, I think it was. Was it Gary Herbert? No, it was, it was Spencer, Governor Cox. He confirmed by the Senate. And then was on the job just five months. Yeah. When he gets this case. When by random, you know, draw, they, he got this case, which is all eyes and not maybe on the world watching this case in Provo happen. And so he's kind of, you know, a little wet behind the ears. And he's got so much scrutiny going on. And I do think he's making rulings about what the gallery or what people will see in terms of disclosure of probable cause evidence. If you can just say, look, I see, I believe we have enough to go forward. And who on earth would think you don't? I think instead of making rulings about what the public can see or the gallery that's present in the courtroom can see that's being presented. Why are you making that ruling when we can just move the process forward now? Yeah. You could just say, you know what, we're going to go ahead and move forward. Well, one of the legal experts who worked in New York who worked in New York and they do it differently in New York, we do it differently here in Utah. New York, you go to a grand jury, they indict them and then the charges are leveled against him, Greg. And then someone said in New York, you could indict a ham sandwich. That's correct. That's really all it takes, right? So what by delaying this, I think in many cases. the judge is kind of giving the defense kind of an insight as to where the prosecution is going. The longer this goes on, where they're going so the defense now can build a team. They're having to show maybe a few more of their cards than they had to because a lot of people are saying, you know what, this hearing could have been over in three hours. Yeah. And now we're going, we're into, tomorrow will be the fifth day. Well, and I'll tell you this. So you have, you have this delay in justice, and you're seeing a case that's probably being presented by way of probable cause evidence that's more than what you'd normally expect. At least that's what the experts and the talking heads are saying. But here's it, it's also a waste of taxpayer dollars. Yes. The amount of security, the extraordinary measures that are being taken for this specific hearing. with the Utah County Sheriff's Department with, or yeah, Sheriff's Department and everyone involved, there is an incredible amount of taxpayer dollars uniquely for this court hearing that you just don't, you're going to spend it in the hearing in and of itself. The preliminary hearing, when you stretch it and you didn't need to, those are dollars that are being spent that I think you didn't have to spend. So I just think that.

I don't know what the judge would need to hear to make that determination or if there's missing something. But if you heard what we've been that's being reported over the last three days, I don't know what we're talking about now. Well, especially some of the testimony that we shared today. I mean, there are a lot of people who he told, yeah, I did it. You know, yet you have a judge who's being very careful. Understand that. But here's the thing, and we'll talk about this when we come back after our break, Greg. There are some wild, I mean, wild conspiracy theories out there about this whole thing, about Charlie Kirk and Erika Kirk, and you name it. And I think this is pretty shot down every one of those crazy conspiracy theories with the information that they have. I think it embarrasses these coups that said otherwise. And it should. And it should. And it should. They should have never run with something like this. And this is where you get in the clickbaits more important than substance and other things. And that's the ugly side of it. Yeah. And we'll talk about that when we come back on the Rod and Greg show and Utah's Talk Radio, 1059, K&RS, live everywhere, of course, on the IHeart Radio app. If you'd like to weigh into what you've heard so far during this preliminary hearing, you can give us a call 888-57010 or on your cell phone dial pound 250 and say, hey, Rod, or leave us a message on the talkback line. The preliminary hearing for... For Tyler Robinson, the man accused of assassinating Charlie Kirk, continued in Provo today, a lot of solid evidence. And it seems pretty clear that there's evidence, enough evidence, to now bind him over for trial on charges of murdering Charlie Kirk. And I don't know, there are a lot of conspiracy theories out there. But, you know, the poor Kirk family, I understand Erica today broke down a couple of times during the hearing in the courtroom as the evidence was being presented. Here is Scott Jennings today on his radio show. about what happened today and the conspiracy theorists out there when it comes to the murder of Charlie Kirk. I've seen something like this before. You have to go back 16 years. No, that's not what I'm looking for. Yeah, here's what I'm looking for. What I want to do here with this case this week and as the trial unfolds is bringing the facts. It's been rather dismaying to say the least to see so many bad actors in the world out there who, for their own personal... self-aggrandizement for their own personal enrichment, for their own personal need to grind axes, have created such chaos and conspiracy around this case. A lot of people out there using this case to make themselves more prominent, to impugn the character of others, to... Go after Erika Kirk, which has been one of the most despicable things about all this. Erica lost her husband. Their children lost their father. And you have people out there attacking Erica and imputing her character and claiming she had something to do with it and on and on and on. Just absolute garbage.

So what I want to do here with this case this week, and as the trial unfolds, is bring you the facts. And the facts today, as we know it, is that there's damning evidence in the courtroom that Tyler Robinson... murdered Charlie Kirk and we've I think passed the threshold of probable cause which is what they're looking for as they seek to go on to a full murder trial Scott Jennings and his comments about many out there who are having various conspiracy theories as to what happened I want to get your reaction to this the hearing itself has been going on all week a lot of evidence has surfaced 888 57080101010, triple-8-57080-10 on your cell phone, dial pound 250. And, of course, you can leave us comment on the talkback line as well. Yeah, let's go to our listeners. Let's go to John in Salt Lake City. He's been on hold. Thank you for holding John. Welcome to the Rodden Greg show. Oh, hi, Rodden, Greg. How are you? We're doing well. Thank you, John. What are your thoughts on this? You know, I'm not an experienced hunter, but I have shot. close to the caliber rifle that was supposedly used at roughly that range. And my experience is just that it's just too violent of a caliber and a bullet to stay in the neck. So I think if you say, you know, these wild conspiracies, but I like I say, I'm not experienced at hunting anything, but just personally. I think there's something there that the bullet stayed in the neck with that caliber. And, you know, if you can't even, that needs to be fleshed out to get people like me on board who are not typically out there wild conspiracy, guys. So you're saying, John, you're thinking from what the knowledge you have or, you know, being a hunter, you're saying the bullet should not have stayed in the neck. Yeah, absolutely. And like I say, I'm not a hunter, but I have shot a rifle of similar caliber and target practice at similar range. And even someone like me who's not an experienced hunter, my immediate takeaway was, wow, that bullet stayed in the neck, that gun is that caliber rifle, that range is violent there. It's just almost unthinkable to me that the bullet could have stayed in the neck and not exited out. And I'm pretty sure it was. it's been stated that it did stay. I don't think that's disputed that it stayed in the neck. So I just, I don't think that's too wild and conspiracy wild out there to just be like, whoa, that's odd. Well, there may, thank you, John, for that. There may be some people in our audience who can explain that. E. Ray, you have knowledge. E. Ray has knowledge. He's a hunter. He shoots guns. E. Ray, that theory that has been kicked around, I've heard that theory before. What are your thoughts on? I think it's hogwash. Bullets can hit anything in the body and deflect and stay right where they're at. Happens all the time.

And I've seen an illustration. Anything that guy just said is hotwash. I've seen the illustration of the bullet in the neck and it may have turned. It may have been deflected. And that's why I stayed in the neck. But I'm not an expert either. And I know we've got some experts out there who could shed some light on this. But that's just one of the many theories that are running around with the Charlie Kirk assassination. So get on with the trial, because I think that that that would be, I'm sure if the defense felt that that was a strong enough case to make, that there was an inconsistency there, they'll make that case, and then you'll have experts that will, you know, that'll either confirm or share what ERA did and say, no, no, no, these caliber bullets can hit, bone, can hit a lot of things and stay inside what it's hit, and it's happened before, it'll happen again. I don't know enough about guns to say either way, but what I do believe. is at the weight of evidence, the volume of evidence that they have. And they have a ton of it. Remember, no one caught this guy, this Tyler Robinson, in the act. He turned himself in. If this man is completely innocent, then what was the motivation to have his parents contact, the deputy sheriff in Washington County, come meet with him, turn himself in on something he had nothing to do with? That's true. I just cannot in my mind. Find an alternative story for why he was where he was from where he lives with a gun that his grandfather owned from Kane County that finds its way up to outside of UVU. The DNA that's on the, you know, all of this of himself and his boyfriend, I just can't find a story. that sounds plausible to me on the weight of the information. Well, we're getting a lot of people now respond to this. We want to get your thoughts on this. 888-5708010. Leave us a message as well on our talkback line by downloading the iHeartRadio app. More of your calls and comments coming up on the Rod and Greg show. Down in Provo for Tyler Robinson, the man accused of killing Charlie Kirk. A lot of questions being raised, of course, the debates over the various conspiracy theories. Before the break, we aired a comment from Scott Jennings talking about can we put these to rest. Other people, they're still going on. Yeah, and I think that you, I don't know if you're going to play it, but I think that it's Jeff Gray, he's a Utah County attorney. I think he was asking the judge, can we get back to? Instead of the ancillary issues that keep being brought up about the public being able to see or what the gallery sees evidence or whatever, can we get back to considering probable cause? I think that's an important part because this is where I think Judge Tony Graf is going to be accused of being like a Lanzito. from back in the O.J. Simpson trial is that everything's getting prolonged because you're getting sidetracked. There was what some people are calling an outrageous moment today in the trial where one of the defense attorneys, Michael Burt, lashed out at Erika Kirk by name. And we'll get to that comment coming up in just a minute. But let's go to the phones as we talk about the various conspiracy theories out there. Jim is in Star Valley, Wyoming tonight listening to Rod and Greg. Hi, Jim. How are you?

What's going on, everyone? It's Bluff here, and you know what's more American than America's 250th birthday? Supporting American-owned companies like SpinQuest, America's number one social casino with over 1,000 games like Live Dealer Blackjack and Craps. They're offering new users, a $30 coin package for just $10. Go to SpinQuest.com and sign up today. SpinQuest is a free-to-play social casino. Boydware prohibited, visit SpendQuest.com for more details. These days, it's getting harder and harder to trust what you're seeing. Who made it? Is it real? But with iHeart, everything you hear is guaranteed human. That's why 78% of listeners trust their favorite radio hosts product recommendations. And if you own or manage a business here or need to drive sales, that trust goes a long way in creating your future customers. Make iHeartMedia a part of your 2026 plan today. Visit iHeartadvertising.com. Again, that's iHeartadvertising.com. Doing well. Hey, far be it from me to criticize a good conspiracy theory, but this thing with the bullet. My understanding is this young man got this rifle from his grandfather. It sounds like it's an old rifle. It could be that the loads for that rifle were hand loaded and maybe didn't have... as much powder in the in the load as would normally be in you know a normal factory load that could be a reason why it didn't go through his neck we don't know how clean he kept the barrel how worn out the barrel is so so there's a lot of things that go into that these people that keep saying well what a loan right through his neck well maybe The second thing is, is criticizing the judge. I think the judge is doing his best to keep the defense from having an appealable issue. So he's going to give them as much leeway as he can and listen to all their crazy arguments, et cetera, things that they bring up. I mean, I'm a defense attorney. This is what we do. Oh, Jim, I love the perspective. He's trying to keep the... He's trying to keep that defense team from having an appealable issue. And this last thing, and this is more tongue-in-cheek, I've just noticed a lot of Utah-trained attorneys. They like the publicity. I've seen it up here in our courts when they've been involved with high-profile cases. We like to call in the press, you know, and I guess... Maybe that's the difference in the training down there because it's more competitive as far as the field of law and you need to have your face and name out there. But that's just my thought on it. All right, Jim. What a great insight. We need him as our legal correspondent. I thought all three of those observations were powerful. And you know what? And true, if you aren't careful in terms of all those objections.

You do give them some sort of runway for an appeal. So I think he's just trying to shut, he could be just trying to shut it down. There's just a fine line, I guess. I mean, I don't know. He's an attorney. He's an officer of the court. I'm not. So I don't know. But I think there has to be a line where it gets pushed out too long, but I could see. I didn't, I had not considered the keeping appeals from being able to be run. But let me counter that. This is just a preliminary hearing. Yeah, right now. Okay. If gets to trial, maybe you do need to be a little bit more careful during the trial phase. This is just, and I say just, but this is a preliminary hearing. That's what some people are saying. Well, the bar is lower. Yeah, yeah, the bar is lower. Back to the phones we go. Let's go to Orham and hear what James has to say tonight. Hi, James. How are you? Welcome to the Rod and Greg show. Hey, how are you guys? We're doing well. Thank you. This thing with the bullet is driving me nuts. The head of security did an interview with Sean Ryan and said that the autopsy report said that the bullet hit the vertebrae in the neck and it went downward and went through a few of the vertebrae and then kind of. fragmented when it hit the last one. And if anybody has shot a rifle or went hunting and they shot through some twigs, they know that even a tiny little twig can knock a bullet off its trajectory. So, I mean, yeah, just because it didn't go through the neck doesn't mean that, I mean, it would have just been complete flesh all the way from side to side for a bullet to go through it without any. um, obstacles to go through. So. That's good knowledge. That's my defense. Well, I appreciate that. That's good knowledge because I think that's what a lot of people are indicating as well. All right. More coming up. More of your calls and comments. It is The Rod and Greg Show on Utah's talk radio, 1059, KNRS. In the Charlie Kirk assassination, in light of the preliminary hearing and the mountain of evidence that has been presented there. Let's go to our callers quickly. Let's go to Derek, who's been waiting in late. Derek, welcome to the Rod and Greg show. Hey, thank you very much. Appreciate all you guys do and rest of peace for good old Rush Limbaugh. Thank you. Thank you. You're very welcome. What I don't get is everyone knows what's going on across the country with these TP rallies, right, with these time point USA rallies. Why was there only six cops there? Not only that, just got a few points. Not only that, but they did not treat it as a crime scene immediately. You got guys taking down the video equipment. And then as far as the bullet goes, they've got the, if you watch the video, they're making the hand signals, you know, those hand signals are military hand signals, like, okay, let's go, fire, whatever. You know, his own security squad, okay? You watch the guy with a tan shirt with his hand on the rail. Right before he got shot, he'd get something with his hand on his shoulder.

Then immediately, what happened was if you watch the video, his shirt puffs up. Yeah. I believe there was a bullet inside of that microphone that shot his neck actually exploded, and that's what happened. That's why they immediately right after. They're looking for people to do construction to immediately right after reconstruct that whole area. Shouldn't that have been a crime scene that, you know, should have been looked at? Derek, we've got a couple more before we get a heartbreak. He brings up a couple of items there. But I've never heard the bullet in the microphone theory. I haven't heard that either, but I did. I've seen that shirt rise. Yeah, I've seen that. I think that in hindsight, we can say that's something we should have had more. I think it was amateur hour. I think it's Utah. It's Utah County. This was in a place where a political assassination. I think they were just flat-footed, unprepared. Charlie Kirk travels with his own security team. I think they were more comfortable than they should have been. But we say that in hindsight. All right. Let's go back to the phones. Troy is in Sandy tonight. Troy, how are you? Welcome to the show. Hey, good, thanks. Hey, so quick couple things. I think what he was referring to is a PETM theory in the microphone. That's actually a plastic explosive. I got a couple issues with that, but I don't have time to go into it. If you had something like that, you'd have to have a really hardcore, like, tungsten tube or something like that that wouldn't fragment before it entered the neck. I just don't see that happening. When you put something like a tiny little plastic microphone, it's not big enough. As far as the bullet thing, I was kind of like, well, something else happened with the assassination other than a round because I was under the impression that the round itself struck the spine and stayed put, like lodged in the vertebrae. But a couple of callers previous said that... It actually went down to vertebrae and then exploded in the sternum. And I've been hunting my entire life. I've taken a lot of animals anywhere from, you know, 223 to 300 wind mag. As a matter of fact, the last deer I shot was with a 300 wind mag, and it was four times as far. But I shot at a downward angle. The deer was looking straight at me, and the round hit right where the spine curves from the neck to, you know, where the back straps are. And that round did the same thing. Yeah, and the illustration I've seen, Greg, is the bullet entering the neck and going down, hitting the vertebrae and going down. And we hate to catch you off, but we have a heartbreak top of the hour. Thank you for our callers. I love the information. I love the discussion. More when we come back. Yep, more coming up, the Rod and Greg show. Talk Radio 105.9, NRS. I wanted to bring in our next guest. Happy birthday, America. It's time to celebrate and play your favorite Las Vegas casino games by American-owned SpinQuest.com. What's better than fireworks than American Pie? Hitting a black check in the palm of your hand, and you won't lose your fingers. Over a thousand games, including slots and live dealers. And $30 point packs are on sale for 10. SpinQuest.com. Buy American players for American players.

SpendQuest is a free-to-play social casino. Avoid where prohibited. Visit SpenQuest.com for more details. These days, it's getting harder and harder to trust what you're seeing. Who made it? Is it real? But with iHeart, everything you hear is guaranteed human. That's why 78% of listeners trust their favorite radio hosts product recommendations. And if you own or manage a business here or need to drive sales, that trust goes a long way in creating your future customers. Make iHeartMedia a part of your 2026 plan today. Visit iHeartadvertising.com. Again, that's iHeartadvertising.com. His name is Mike Carey. Many of you know, Mike. He is chair of the Salt Lake County Republican Party, also a developer because we wanted to talk about housing in Utah. Now, there was a federal report which was released just the other day, revealing the impact of Biden's immigration surge on housing prices. And Mike, you being in the development industry, hasn't had an impact? Absolutely. Illegal immigration. And if so, how? Well, you know, locally, locally, you know, the report that came out said that illegal immigration under the Biden administration contributed to a 30% price escalation. Wow. you know, across the country. When you look at Utah, we know that housing has gone through the roof. And that really started with COVID even before President Biden took office. But you'd have to have your head in the sand right now to not realize what the impact was of illegal immigration during the Biden administration where basically anybody that came across the border got this status assigned to them called temporary protective status or they got asylum status, even though they didn't follow the... correct procedure for claiming asylum. And so those people kind of got scattered throughout the United States afterwards. And a lot of them came to Utah. And we don't know how many were using our first homes program, but it definitely contributed to especially the lower end of the market where we have starter home pricing for starter homes. How were they able, Mike, to get the money to buy a home? I mean, how does that happen? So when I ran for office for county council at large, back in 2024, this first started coming on my radar. You know, the housing thing I had been watching because I was seeing a lot of... a lot of what I had seen in Maryland when I lived there from 2000 to 2011. And what I saw happening here was that we were providing subsidies in terms of first-time homebuyer assistance. But there were two things that caught my attention. One is it could only be used on new construction. Okay, so in 2020,

Construction pricing went through the roof as well. Not only with, and land values were going through the roof because everyone was trying to come to Utah to work remote. Yeah, so was demand. The secret was out. Demand went through the roof. Demand went through the roof. And that's what we heard. But for the past three and a half years, supply has been increasing heavily and median home price in the state is down almost $100,000. But we don't hear that. Okay? Why not? I don't know. I mean, I have my theories, but, you know, and I'll keep them to myself, but I think they're valid theories. You know, there's this push for densification in a lot of the suburbs, these transit hubs, you know, in all the suburbs. And I've been saying for over two years, be careful what you wish for, because density, once you create it, it doesn't go away. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of those starter homes and. A lot of the that are pretty much all you can afford that are going to be built in those high density zones. The starter homes price at around 450 or 500 grand, which is crazy for a starter home. That's nuts. Forget about interest rates. That's an insane price for anybody. And I'm not suggesting that we don't have a pricing problem. But you basically created an unnatural imbalance within the system where you were introducing... new buyers that otherwise would not have been here. And so on the new housing front where you had the first homes initiative, you could apply for a $20,000 down payment assistance plan that had no payments and no interest. Okay, so the payment wasn't due until you sold the home. And then you also had rate buy downs that you could get. So the prequalifications that I learned about from members in the immigrant community who are legal citizens now in the United States was that, you know, basically with, you know, the Biden administration was handing out social security numbers within two to three weeks after getting TPS or Asile status. And then you had to get about six months of pay stubs to get a minimum credit store. You could go out and get a... prepaid credit card to get a credit rating of like 660. Okay. And then you had the only other pre-qualification was one-year residency in Utah. So after a year in Utah, you could use these programs to go buy a first home. And my point has always been, we should be using these programs strictly for Utah. They're Utah taxpayer-funded programs. They should be dedicated to Utah's or to people that came into this country, that came into the country legally. I also have a problem with it being reserved for new homes only, especially since we have a quarter million homes coming on the market as the baby boomers exit the market over the next decade. 12 plus years, but, you know, so I'm working on some modifications to the legislation for that. Did you see an increase, as we saw the number of illegal immigrants coming into this country? Yeah. Did you see an increase, Mike, in, you know, the access to these federal programs that you're talking about, and therefore demand for houses just continued to go up? Well, the, the demand for housing started, the demand for housing has been strong for...

12 years. Utah's a great state. The secrets out, right? You can't. The secrets long gone. Okay. But what we saw was during COVID, we saw massive pricing inflation that continued into 2022. And then ever since, you know, I would say April or May, latest June of 2023, we've seen a recovery. Okay. The median home price. for June of 2022 was $640,000 statewide. Now it's $582. Okay. The number of homes for sale back in June of 2020 was statewide was 7433. It's now doubled at $14,370, the highest it's been in the last 10 years. Wow. Okay. So, yes, we still have a pricing problem, but, you know, the inventories there, the pricing is slowly coming down. We don't want to bubble to pop. Because anybody who bought a home in the last four years is going to be upside down, and that creates other problems. Okay, they might just walk away, okay, rather than have, you know, negative equity in a home. And so there's a compounding issue, though, when you start allowing... systems like the First Homes Act or the First Homes Initiative to be utilized by people who didn't pay into a system that's ultimately funding. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, there are real problems there. It is a problem. And now that system's only been used by about 3,000 people. Okay. And I've talked to the state auditor about, hey, we should really do a deep dive on, you know, because there is no citizenship or green card, you know, kind of prerequisite or requirement to access those programs. And so I would like to see that implemented. I'd like to see the program expanded to include existing homes. So it's not just being reserved for new home developers. You know, that's not good for me. I'm in that business, but it's not my primary business. And, you know, so it's, you know, I think there's a lot of opportunity there in the incentives. or the incentive to try to help people out is not misguided. It's just how do we put goods constraints around it? Some guardrails. Guard rails. We need more guardrails. Yeah. Mike, can you stay for a bit? I've got to take a break. Because you were quoted in this article in the Desperate News today talking about this whole issue. I'd like to get more your thoughts on the first housing program and where this should go. So we're talking right now with Mike Carey. He's a chair of the Salt Lake County Republican Party, also a developer about federal housing or housing issues. issues here in the state of Utah. More coming up on Utah's talk radio 1059, KNRS. There's another... Well, joining us right now in studio, so it's great to have guests in studio when we can. Mike Carey, Mike, of course, chair of the Salt Lake County Republican Party. We're talking about this latest federal report. talking about the impact of the Biden flood of illegal immigrants into this country, what it did for housing prices. But in that article that was in the Desirette News today, Mike, you were quoted talking about the first-time homebuyers program, and you have some concerns about it. In your opinion, how has that impacted housing? So, again, we don't know the full volume of First Homes Act subsidies that were used.

potentially used by those who came here illegally and then got temporary protective status or asylum status. Unfortunately, the first-time homebuyer assistance program does not include any kind of applicant eligibility to include citizens only or someone with a valid permanent resident card or a green card. Okay. So, and we know from social media in 2024 and 2020, 2020, after this bill was passed in 24 and early 25 that was being broadcast across a lot of channels, specifically to people who just came in under the Biden administration. So, you know, does that mean, you know, it was being used exclusively by illegals? No, it doesn't mean. But I've got enough friends in the real estate business that, you know, they know two things. One, there should be that kind of those guardrails like we talked about last segment around, you know, who should be eligible for this. And then also. With the fact that we've got more homes on the market right now than the last 12 years, if we imagine what that could do for starter homes or for, you know, people aging out of their homes, that could sell it in a community where you've got massive declining enrollment in elementary schools, you know. Yeah, we aren't growing the way we used to. Well, we don't, let's say, we don't have the young population that we used to have because every year it seemed like enrollment in schools was growing and growing. That has slowed down now. I'm in the Canyon School District, and I brought this. And I showed this to some people in the legislature. Out of the 30 elementary schools, 17 schools by 2029, elementary schools will have less than 60% enrollment. Wow. Of those 17, 11 will be below 50%. In 2029, we will have a capacity of almost 10,100 extra seats. across those elementary schools. So while people in the Jim Jordan School District are paying for new schools and expansion in the Southwest Corner, I've got empty seats. in the canyons district. So imagine if you could open up the first Homes Act to include, you know, houses in those elementary school boundaries that mean a certain criteria, not mansions, you know, nothing crazy, but like a modest 2,800, 2,600, 2,200, square foot, you know, ranch or something like that in Sandy or Draper, one of the older developments, not the, again, not something newer, and allow people to go in. And, you know, and then they can spend the next. 20 years of weekends of Home Depot like I've done. You know, I was talking my wife the other day, Mike, about this. To fix it up. Yeah, I was talking to my wife the other day about this. And I said, did any of our kids go through year-round schools? Remember the days of year-round schools? I don't even know if they exist anymore here in this state of use. I don't think so. I don't think they exist. You're a developer. You're in this business, Mike. Home prices. $400,000 to $500,000 for a starter home? How do people even afford that nowadays? I've been saying this for two years, okay? Let it deflate. The housing market, if you took a straight line right now from 2017 to now, and you did, and you straightlined the pre-COVID trend line, we're actually below where it would have been had COVID not happened. All right, so we're actually experiencing housing deflation. And again, you don't want it to pop.

because that will hurt people who bought homes in the last five years. But if we continue that downward trend and let the system find equilibrium, okay, and stop influencing it from the outside, you know, I think there's a component of our economic development policy that affects this in terms of companies we recruit here, you know, and the wages they bring with them, the median household income in Utah just crossed $100,000 in the last three years. Okay, and if you're bringing in a bunch of people making $150, 160, that's great for state tax coffers. But it's going to create an unnatural, you know, competition for our housing stock. Yeah. Are there way – you've probably heard this term a million times. An issue in this campaign or midterm elections is going to be affordable housing. Can we make housing affordable? Absolutely. Can it be done? Absolutely. I think that, you know, being from the East Coast, and, you know, a lot of people hold that against me. I don't because I'm from there too. So I won't hold it again to Mike. For the record, I'm not wearing my jersey mic shirt. I will be tomorrow at the beach. But, you know, if you look at the East Coast and some lessons learned, okay, I go to places like Capitol Hill where you've got row housing. Yes. Okay. That doesn't exist in Utah. That doesn't exist in Salt Lake City for the most part. No, no. We skipped over that because Salt Lake City went from you could buy a single family detached home like a bungalow or a craftsman-style home. And then it went to big buildings, right? We kind of missed that era in the 50s and 60s where, no, actually, row houses make a lot of sense. Or, you know, we're starting to see some single family attached in the form of townhouses, but many of them don't have yards. You've got alleyways with back-to-back garages. Where I think the opportunity is and where I'm really supportive of what the legislature has been doing in some towns and cities is duplexes, four plexes, eight plexes. But you got to have it. Like have a yard. Okay. Like I'm a big fan of like even a small backyard because if you're going to, you want to talk starter home. Starter homes, some do you want to stay in for 8 to 10 years or 12 years? Okay? I had a starter home back east. I moved out here because I needed to upsize. And it was either moved to Northern Virginia and spent twice as much or moved to Utah and upsize. So, you know, there's no like buy your first home forever home. That's a smidgen of the population that can actually do that or would want to do that. So I think there are opportunities and some municipalities I do think need to loosen up their zoning. But I don't, I'm not a fan of statewide total control to say, you know, in order to get transportation funds, you got to agree to do all these high density initiatives. Because that there's some unattended consequences that come with that from on the chair of the Republican Party. There's unintended consequences that occur over. You know, a 10 to 20 year period when you go higher density and especially with the flood of rentals we've seen in the market in the last few years. I have, I'll be honest, you know, I look at like apartment complexes. They're being built all over the place or they were. As that slowed down and are those apartment complexes filling up? Been hearing for over three years now that, you know, back in, I think it was back in 22 or 23, NAOP, which is now rebranded under, I think, a.

a term called CREDA. I don't know what it stands for, but NAOP was National Association of Industrial Office Parks. They would do this symposium every February at Grand America. It's the largest collection of developers and architects and builders in the state across the full economic spectrum, from your small guy to your big guy. And they were talking about how, back in 22, 23, how the number of multifamily apartment rental starts was like, had... gone off a cliff and that it would be raging back by 25 26 because we would have we would have high demand the vacancy rates i i would love to know what the real vacancy rate is on a lot of these units because i hear from people in my circle that you know there's some there's a lot of concern in the marketplace you know that that um You know, the number of people, they're all competing for the same pool of people. It's not like there's a steady flow of growth. We said this during the break. Between 2023 and 2024, KSL put out a news article a few months back that said, our population would have decreased by 11,000 people in Salt Lake County had it not been for the 40,000 international, air quotes, international migrants, immigrants that came here. And again, legal or illegal, legal or illegal. Okay, so, you know, if the spigots been not turned off but significantly ratcheted back, you know, where are the consumers? Okay, they don't just manifest. So I'm pretty bullish on the housing market. I think we're going to see a long-term pricing correction. I think, you know, I made some burger bets with some guys that I still want to go collect that said we'd be close to 500K as a median sale price. I think we hit 515 in March. Wow. okay, as the median home sales price for all of Utah. And if you look at it on a countywide basis, you know, Salt Lake County, you look up northern Utah, you look Washington County, Utah County. It's all falling that same kind of trend line. Yeah, it is. Well, that's good. Mike, great information. Thanks for swinging on by. Thanks for heading back. Thanks for heading back. Yeah. Red out of the Jersey shirt tonight, man. You really do a Jersey Mike's t-shirt away. I'm going to do a remote, I'm going to remote into a GOP event on Wednesday where all my Jersey, Jersey Mike's regalia. Well, good luck being safe travels. Mike, thanks are coming by. Mike Kerry Chair of the Salt Lake County Republican Party. More coming up on the Rod and Greg show in Utah's Talk Radio 1059, KNRS. Joining us on our newsmaker line, we talked to him. A short time ago, before Greg had to split today, is Steve Moore, an economist, the co-founder of Unleashed Prosperity. By the way, make sure you look to get his daily email. He's always got a lot of information. And as we begin our conversation today with Steve, I asked him first of all about this new report, which is out, which basically says U.S. manufacturing has hit a four-year high and proves that the U.S. has become self-reliant. I asked Steve to give us a reaction to that report today.

Well, you know, it goes up and down, certainly, and it's up right now for sure. And part of that is because of the Trump tax cut, which really gave an incentive to, you know, invest here in the United States in terms of reducing the taxes on new investment. So that's a, you know, the manufacturing is good, although last year wasn't so good. So as I said, you know, it fluctuates. But there's no reason we can't make things here in the United States. I also believe in free trade, though. I was disappointed. The president has not renewed the U.S.-Canada-Mexico trade agreement because I think that makes sense. I like the idea of North America being one big free trade zone. But on balance, yeah, I agree with you. It's not just, by the way, it's not just... The manufacturing is also construction and a lot of just investment in technology that's booming as well. You know, Steve, when I hear these big announcements of investment in the United States, onshore manufacturing, be it Toyota in Texas, and now GM was announced today in Tennessee, I always think, well, we'll see that in a couple years because, to your point, there's construction, there's things you have to do. So are we seeing... the increase in manufacturing jobs by way of these announcements, or is this a runway? And we would really see this kick into a higher gear, maybe a year or two down the road. I think you're right that a lot of the announcements are happening now about all these planned... you know, facilities that are being built. You know, the big issue right now around the country is what we need is data centers. And there's big, you know, pushback, as you all know, about that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I don't quite get that guys because, you know, I ask people, and I'm very much in favor of data centers. We have the biggest data center in the country, maybe in the world outside of about 20 miles from where I am right now in Loudoun County, Virginia. And people didn't even know it's there. And now that they know it's there, oh, my gosh, we can't have a data center. But, you know, I ask people, do you like Dennis? And now, I hate that. We can't have a data center. And I say, well, do you like your cell phone? Yeah, I like my data. I couldn't live without my cell phone. Well, you can't have your cell phone if you have data centers. And it's similar to the, you know, when people said, I don't want an electric power plant. Okay, well, do you like your lights going on? So there's a bit of contradiction there. But I want to make sure. that the United States leads the world in this new technology age, you know, in addition to manufacturing instruction and so on. So I think the United States is well prepped to, you know, take that lead. And, you know, when you've got Dow, 52,500, knocking on the door, 53,000, it shows there's a lot of investment and a lot of... excitement about where America is going technologically. Steve, it appears we're back at war with Iran, yet we haven't seen oil prices really skyrocket as of yet, Steve. I know. Is that an indication that the oil industry, the market in general, is kind of adapting to the Strait of Hormuz and being open, being closed, that they're going elsewhere, they're finding oil elsewhere, Steve?

Well, that's a good question. You know, I don't answer, but it's a good question. And, you know, are they adapting to this new reality that we just cannot rely on the Middle East? You know, we relied on them for 50 years, and it's never turned out very well. So I hope you're right that we're, and look, we have Venezuela starting to put, you know, more oil online. I was down in Texas a couple weeks ago, you know, they're drilling all over the place in Texas. So. That might well be true, but if we could get that oil flowing again, we could be back to less than $3 a gallon gas. I mean, I did get a note from a friend of mine earlier this week showing that they're in Houston, which has a lot of gas down there, but they're paying $289 a gallon now. But it fluctuates. I mean, every day it seems to be a new story in Iran. So, Steve, I have a great question for you that you're going to hate. So I know that it is your moral and professional obligation to inform our listeners how much you embrace the free market and you really don't like tariffs. And we know this. We know this all about you. But you had to love. You had to love, love, love. The president's announcement that Spain is just encourageable. We are done with this country. We are done trading with them. We're never going to trade with them again. And by day's end... Spain is paying up in NATO. They are paying the bills. They're trying to get back in the good graces. Isn't there a lever there with the consumer power of the United States and the prospect of tariffs to not embrace tariffs for tariffs themselves? But for moments like that, where if you have a stubborn country that doesn't want to, doesn't want the two-way street of participating in the defense in NATO can be brought around. Yeah. Now, what country was that? Spain. Spain, okay? A very big powerhouse, yes. I agree with, yeah, I agree with what you're saying that the, you know, we are the alpha male economy. We are the epicenter of the world economy. And Trump has used that that Trump card, so to speak, to force other countries. to do things that are in, you know, our interest. And why not? If you've got the, you know, the power to do it, why not flex the muscle? And look, Spain and these European countries aren't playing by the rules. They're not paying their NATO dues. And so, you know, they're getting a little spanking for Trump and through terrorists. And that's making it's making an impact. Now our conversation with Steve Moore from Unleash Prosperity, a former economic advisor to President Trump talking about the state of the nation's economy. All right. More coming up. It is the Rod and Greg show with you on this Thursday and Utah's Talk Radio 1059, KNRS. The preliminary hearing down in Provo. about the Tyler Robinson case. Before I get to a few of those, I just want to hear a comment because some people are reacting to this, calling it absolutely outrageous. Now, this is an attorney for the defense. His name is Michael Burke. He had previously represented Lyell Menendez, and that trial down in Los Angeles. But listen to what he said today when he talked about transparency and what's going on with Erika Kirk. I just want to play a portion of this. You tell me if this is outrageous.

And I want to point out to the court, Ms. Kirk has been very adopted holding press conferences at which she has revealed evidence. She has represented that the state is her attorney. She has access to all the evidence that the state has publicized and that the media and her own lawyer argues is already in the public domain. So they're perfectly free. to go outside this courtroom under the court's protective order. They're free to go out and hold press conferences and announce to the world outside the courtroom what they think the evidence is. They have the availability of that evidence. But the court's role, I think, at some point, is to exercise some control, move the case forward, and especially when we have witness availability problems. Now, I am not aware of Erika Kirk holding any type of news conference outside the hearing so far. So I'm not sure where this attorney is coming up with that. All right. As we mentioned, we got a lot of feedback today on the various conspiracy theories being kicked around when it comes to the Charlie Kirk assassination. A lot of comments on our talkback line. Let's listen to a few of them. Here's the first one. I know this is a new topic, but... As far as conspiracy theories go, the idea that Scott Jennings had a co-parent conversation with Mitch McConnell makes the Republican Party now no different. than the Democratic Party protecting Joe Biden, and it's ridiculous. Come in, Scott Jennings mentioned yesterday, real concern about the health of Mitch McConnell. John Thune said he had a conversation with him yesterday, Scott Jenning, who has known Mitch McConnell. They're both from the state of Kentucky having a conversation last night. That's what that comment is all about. Here's another comment. I do.

I do not disagree with one of your last callers in that last segment because I've grown up the son of a forest ranger in Wyoming my whole life. But at a distance of 200 yards, a 30-0.6 bullet would not be deterred by a vertebrae. Not with a full round anyway. It would easily, according to my little knowledge of all of this. Back to the talkback line. Here's another comment. How in the world have you never heard of the bullet or the exploding microphone theory question mark? Have you guys not paid attention to this fully through? I mean, seriously, that's been the number one conspiracy from day one. Well, I'm not sure who that person is, but I don't know about you, ERA. Have you ever heard of the exploding microphone theory? No, I tell you why, because I put no stock in the conspiracy theories. No credibility to that at all. No, I'm with you. Really an exploding microphone? Come on, folks. All right, one more comment. I used to have a lot of confidence in our side of things, meaning the more conservative. I agree that the 30 out six bullet not penetrating Charlie Kirk's neck, man, that just doesn't make a lot of sense. No, it doesn't. All right, that does it for us tonight. Head up, shoulders back. May God bless you and your family. And this great country of ours will be back tomorrow at 4 for the brand new edition of the Rod and Greg. What's going on, everyone? It's Bluff here, and we're driving through the States in the BluffMobile, and the best thing that we can do is play our favorite casino-style games on SpinQuest. They have over a thousand games, including Live Dealer Blackjack and Crops, with tons of slots and unlimited. You can get a $30 coin pack for just $10 for new users. Sign up today. Go to SpinQuest.com right now. SpinQuest is a free-to-play social casino. Avoid where prohibited. Visitspinquest.com for more details.