3683 - Trump Restarts War on Iran & Cozies Up to Erdoğan at NATO Summit w/ Oğul Tuna

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Kaching, start your free trial at Shopify.com slash majority today. You heard that right. Start your free trial at Shopify.com. That's Shopify.com slash majority. We will put a link down below in the video and episode descriptions. and at majority.fm. Now time for the show. The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

It is Wednesday, July 8th, 2026. My name is Emma Vigeland, in for Sam Cedar, and this is the five-time award-winning majority report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the Heartland. of America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Old Tuna,

historian and writer will be with us to discuss Trump and Turkey's relationship, as well as his peace in Jacobin. Turkey's key role in NATO is no contradiction. Also on the program, Trump declares the pause in the Iran war over, calling the leaders scum. overnight the U.S. bombed Iran after they fired on oil tankers in their territorial waters. Speaking of the Iran war, calls to impeach Pete Hegseth

renew after CNN reports that the U.S. The U.S. military commanders bypassed warnings before bombing the girls' school. At the NATO summit, Trump claims he's cutting off trade with Spain because they opposed spending more NATO GDP on defense. He also has a grudge against them because they were like, you can't use our bases for your illegal war in Iran and also you're committing genocide.

So go Spain. And they have a handsome president, unlike us. By the way, our long national nightmare is over. Trump says his attention is back on trying to buy Greenland. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you for delivering for us.

Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear has just requested a health update from Mitch McConnell's office. As Republican leaders insist that they just spoke to him. How are you doing, sir?

Does that count? Ice has killed. again this time in Houston. They fatally shot a Mexican immigrant named Lorenzo Salgado Arroyo at a traffic stop. And an Afghan

National who fought with U.S. forces has died in ICE custody from an allergic reaction, one of at least 50 ICE detention deaths during Trump's second term. Sources tell CNN that Graham Platner is planning his exit from the race,

Bernie Sanders asked him to step down yesterday. It sure looks like Ken Paxton violated election law by voting six times in two years from an address where he doesn't reside. ProPublica has learned. A French court has upheld a far-right politician Marine Le Pen's embezzlement conviction, but lifted the ban on her running for office. So she's going to run for president again. And lastly, a staggering new poll in The Guardian finds that 95% of Americans think the U.S. is suffering from an affordability crisis. What do you know? All this and more on today's Majority Report.

Welcome to the show, everybody. It is Hump Day. It's an Majority Report Week. Sam is out, as he tends to be. when news gets crazy. If for everybody that's tuning in and wanted to know our takes about Graham Platner, you should check out the beginning of the show yesterday, where we went into it.

We also opened up phone lines in the fun half yesterday to talk about it. It's a foregone conclusion at this point that he's going to drop out of the race. My hope is that there's some sort of primary process where voters are able to make their voices heard, even in this truncated time frame. But obviously weird. And the establishment doesn't instead use. there's an opportunity to push someone forward who couldn't have won, which I would say if I had to bet.

That's what they're trying to do, right? And like I actually, I did, I've had quite a day already so far. So if people want to check out, you know, Vox, Ested's podcast, but I also did a podcast for Slate. Well, once we have those links, we'll put them in the description, you know, where they kind of were pretty tough on my platinum support. So if you're somebody in the audience that wants to see like a bit of a, debate on that or perhaps your views are more represented by a said Herndon's perspective or, you know,

what Slate was saying. You can check out those interviews because we, we, we, I defended my position. I also talked a little bit about what we could have done differently. So, um, this, these debates are ongoing and, uh, continuous. But right now I want to talk about the fact that, uh, Trump has restarted the Iran war. Okay, so last night, Iran, after Iran struck three tankers in their territorial waters in the Strait of Hormuz, which is they're right, when these tankers are going into the space where they say, do not go here. I mean, the idea was in this period that the tankers transit closer to Iran, and, not through different channels where they couldn't monitor what's going through, and they're not doing that.

And Iran is exerting control over the strait that they never exerted prior to us and Israel starting this war. They now understand that their control over the strait is their best point of leverage, making the West feel economic pain. Since the resumption of bombing, by the way, oil prices have skyrocketed. The U.S. Treasury also responded by revoking a license that authorized sales of Iranian oil, which also is going to impact oil and gas prices. And yet again, another win for Israel here. The colonial entity that dragged us into this war and was able to appeal to Donald Trump's ego

in a way that Benjamin Netanyahu hadn't previously been able to do so with other presidents. Trump was sold a bill of goods, and now we're all paying the price. Here's Trump at the NATO summit speaking about the resumption of the war and the bombing of Iran. And he here is calling Iran scum, which probably is not great for the diplomatic process. Is the ceasefire over?

Is the ceasefire done? Is the MOU dead? It's a very interesting question. To me, I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? They're scum.

They're sick people. They're led by sick people. And they're vicious, violent people. And if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators. They want to negotiate. They're good people.

Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner. They have to come back to me. Wonderful people. It's just a waste of time dealing with them. They're liars. We make a deal. and if I make a deal with him, we have a deal and he goes out, he talks.

We make a deal. Everyone's agreed. No nuclear weapon. We make a deal. They go outside, talk to the press. They say, we never even talked about it. There's something wrong with them. They're cuckoo.

As far as I'm concerned, it's over. What's over? Like, what do you mean? So the memo of, a memo of understanding, right? Like, this temporary cessation of hostilities is over. Yeah. You bombed a bunch of parts of the country, including Carg Island. It's pretty clear that this is.

over. But like, I mean, it's just, what does it mean you don't want to deal with him anymore? We've heard the reporting that he's bored now. We get it. I know. I mean, it doesn't capture your attention, like the reflecting pool and the renovations on the White House. But we still have to come to a negotiated piece.

Like, we lost. You lost. That's why they're exerting leverage over the straight-of-form moves, because it's their territorial waters and they've increased their leverage. And when he talks about Jared Kushner there, the Iranian negotiators barely even want to talk to Jared Kushner because they have this, they have intelligence and that suggests and a belief that Jared Kushner's literally getting on the phone with Benjamin Netanyahu after this and talking to him and giving him all the information and the Israeli government. He's essentially an agent of Israel. I mean, he brags about how Benjamin Netanyahu slept in

his childhood bed. So Israel's desperate to blow up these negotiations. and they have very sympathetic negotiators in Jared Kushner who are advancing that agenda and an aging psycho who is easily manipulated. This was Trump less than a month ago talking about Iranian leadership. You heard him call them scum there. Do you know what that means? I think people know what that means. That's what you put in the reflecting point.

Yes. He's like, you're looking at it. Scum, scum. This was him less than a month ago talking about Iranian leadership. It's the scum. And we're dealing with people that I think are very rational people. And they were nice to deal with. They were strong people, smart people.

I think actually they're smarter than the first and second group. But they're not radicalized and they're, you know, looking to help their country. Trump suggested again that Syria could be on. Okay, there you go. They're looking to help their country. What happened? He's completely out of his mind. If you don't believe me,

these were other parts of the press conference. This is just a short one. He can't. All right, here he is trying to talk about Iran and not getting the country's name right. Which is one of the most beautiful in the world. It's one of the biggest. Abraham Lincoln.

And two months ago, we had a hundred. I told the story yesterday, we had 111 missile shot by the Islamic Republic of Japan. They were shot at the aircraft carrier over a period of about one hour. 111 missiles going to a very expensive ship, and every one of those missiles was knocked down. That's also, okay, putting aside the Islamic Republic of Japan, which is pretty hilarious. Well, that's a whole new problem. I didn't know we had to deal. Right. They've entered, I mean, I keep hearing from Benjamin Netanyahu that even though he's the one committing genocide, that Iran's the real Nazis and the, and the resurrection of Hitler himself.

So it would make sense that Japan would enter the fight. It's pretty amazing, actually, given our military relationship with Japan, how pro-Palestine people are within Japan. I mean, yeah, I guess, but they probably remember which country was the only country in the world to ever drop nuclear weapons, as we're talking about nuclear weapons. weapons. Yeah, I think that might explain it. You know, killed hundreds of thousands of people when likely the war was already over. It was over.

Objectively a terror, like the maybe most significant terror attack in world history that a lot of our political class still defends under like academic terms. Exactly. And some more evidence that he's out of his mind.

Brian has become almost a bit of a savant in translating Trump because he has watch so much of him. And even you were flummoxed by this. I was completely stumped. I think I've sussed it out, but I'm not entirely sure. Well, let the audience decide. And then perhaps we'll have a brainstorm. Again, that was, that was pretty much the, the Obama nuclear, the Obama deal.

that was one of the worst tragedies that happened that's what happened in the Middle East that deal set back that whole situation they went with it frankly they picked the wrong country they picked the wrong country JC

POC what a terrible what a terrible deal I call it the Obama Is that Jesus Christ person of color Exactly Exactly Exactly. He's going woke. He's going woke. Jesus Christ was not white. He was actually looked more like a Palestinian, and that's what Trump wants to say.

JCPOS. What do? Okay. More honest depictions of Jesus Christ as someone who's brown. So, I mean, do you have 30 more seconds? I am confused. I will say that. What do you mean you pick the wrong country? Other country. Which country? What other countries could you? My guess is that he thinks Obama aligned with Iran, and he should have aligned with, like, Israel or something? Or he means that he picked the wrong mediator in the talks with Iran. I think Brian might be right.

But the problem is like the Iran deal wasn't just like what the conservative was thinking of it was like massive giveaway to Iran. It was actually like fairly onerous. And like getting back to those conditions under these conditions is actually a difficult thing for even Trump to do. But I don't quite understand. He elaborated in another interview that's text only. There's no sound on it.

All he said was, Obama picked the wrong country. I won't tell you which one was right. Whoa. Keep your cards close to the vest. It's kind of like sounds like Stephen Crowder saying I picked the wrong wife. But anyway. They went with, frankly, they picked the wrong country.

They picked the wrong country. To make an Iran deal with. POC. What a terrible. What a terrible deal. I call the Obama nuclear waste deal. because what he did with that deal was a tremendous hardship

in the Middle East. It was a terrible terrible thing to do. And we've been just the opposite. Our deal is a wall to a nuclear weapon. His deal was a road to a nuclear weapon. They'll never build a nuclear weapon under our deal. But I don't know if we're going to

have a deal. We may... All right, we have a... Maybe this is the winner from Ad Hominem. Trump forgot what the JCPOA was and the fake talking points about it. But my, he was trying to say Obama supported Iran over Israel is my guess. Oh, that's what you said. Oh.

Okay. The wrong. The right country being Israel. Okay. Got it. Got it. Why not just say JCPOS?

If he's, it's very easy. Well, he, he's sundowning. I don't think he knew. I don't think he was actually making a POC joke. I think he actually thought it was the JCPOS. I meant more instead of the, what did he call it, the nuclear waste deal? The Obama. He has lost his fastball.

That's what he's like trying to. to do his old Trump things where he coins little phrases. And it's like, it's not 2016 anymore, buddy. Yeah, it's really not. And Benjamin Netanyahu is also getting desperate. I think with our guests, we'll play some clips of him panicking that Trump is cozying up to Recep Tayyip Erdogan and might sell them F-35s again. But that is a question for our guests in just a moment.

First, a word from some of our sponsors here. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, honestly, now that I've hit 30-ish, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to, okay? Maybe some people have seen a display of this on air. Maybe right now. I'm just kidding, everybody. Yeah, there we go. That's me. We'll try this again.

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And when we come back, we are going to be speaking to our guests, Oltuna, historian and writer on Turkey's role in NATO and also the summit and Trump's relationship with Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Be right back.

Thank you. We are back and we are joined now by old tuna, a historian and writer discussing his piece in Jacobin. Turkey's key role in NATO is no contradiction. And also here to shed some light on Trump's relationship with Recep Tayyip Erdogan. as they cozy up together at the NATO summit. Oh, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you, for having me. Of course.

So let's start with the news of the day. So yesterday, Trump was asked at the NATO summit about Recep Tayyip Erdogan. I read that Recep Tayyip Erdogan greeted Trump at the tarmac with great fanfare, and that was the only leader that he did that for in the NATO summit. So I'm sure Trump was thrilled about some special treatment. here he is praising Recep Tayyip Erdogan. And this is important because right now, Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government

are publicly criticizing Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Turkey, and we'll get to that in just a second. But here is Trump defending Recep Tayyip Erdogan from Israeli criticism. And they know the problems with Iran. But they've been very instrumental, along with a couple of other countries, of helping.

They could have gotten into the fight. You know, here's some. people saying about their relationship with Israel. They could have gotten into the fight. They're a very powerful military nation. They didn't do that. Maybe they didn't do that because of me, but they could have gotten into the fight on the other side. They are a nation that's been very, very good, and I can only, I can speak for myself as president. They've been extraordinary in many ways with respect to our relationship. including trying to end the war with Iran or whatever you're called.

It's not even a war. It's a military operation. It's a denuclearization. That's really what it is of Iran. Yeah, he forgot that he legally needs to ask Congress to declare war, and he does this all the time. He catches himself calling it a war, comparing it to the Vietnam War, to the Iraq War, to World War II, and then goes, it's just an excursion.

So Benjamin Netanyahu is now, though, going on American means. media with a very friendly host to his interests, Dana Bash on CNN, imploring Trump not to get so friendly with Recep Tayyip Erdogan and saying that despite their personal friendship, Turkey is not an ally to the United States. Here is what he said on CNN yesterday. President Trump is in Turkey right now. He said this morning he will consider selling F-35 fighter jets to Turkey, which is a reversal of a ban he put in place. You said yesterday that would, quote, upset the power balance in the Middle East. Have you made that clear to President Trump? Yes, I have actually spoke to him several times about it. And I think that everybody understands that notwithstanding the personal

friendship that President Trump has with Recep Tayyip Erdogan, it doesn't make Turkey a friendly or a friendly state to the United States. To the contrary, it's a regime that's infected with the Muslim Brotherhood, which hates the United States. He harbors, the Hamas terrorists. He supports them. He finances them. He's thrown his opponents in jail, all of them. He throws more journalists in jail than anyone can understand. So he's not exactly a model ally of the United States. But even worse than that, he threatens Greece, a NATO ally. He occupies half of Cyprus. another NATO country, and the most important thing, and I put it right on the table. He threatens to destroy my country, the one and only Jewish state.

His number two says that we have no place among the nations, and you know what that means. And as number three, the Interior Minister says that he's looking forward to be the governor of Jerusalem. Hello, you know, we're a sovereign country. Yeah, but Prime Minister, the President said this morning that... President said this... So, first of all, and I want to open this up now to Oll, but Benjamin Netanyahu appears very desperate there. He's trying to appeal to Trump by saying Recep Tayyip Erdogan can't be a friend to the U.S. because he jails journalists. Benjamin Netanyahu just assassinates them at a record pace, or that he jails political opponents.

Trump's like, I wish I could do that all the time. And that he threatens NATO allies. Trump threatens NATO allies every other day. It's like one of his favorite things to do. Just your reaction to this kind of public sparring and what you really think it means. I think if we were in, we were still in 2010, that might sound reasonable or relevant to the political atmosphere in Turkey, in Europe or generally speaking. and it was against, you know, jailing journalists, repressing political dissents, going against public. But today we are living in a different situation.

Today we are living in a different world than 2010. You could be criticizing Turkey as an authoritarian state. It jails people, it jails dissidents, politicians, academics, students. And that is okay. I mean, that is a fact. that is the fact. But now all the countries, almost all the countries in the world, especially in the West, are behaving like Turkey. So Turkey was dreaming in the 50s to become a little United States, but nowadays the world itself become a larger Turkey. So those kind of critics don't make

any sense, whether it's coming from Benjamin Netanyahu or someone else. And that's why actually I try to write the complex relationship about the complex relationship between NATO and Turkey because I don't find those critics about Turkish politics Turkish domestic policies, domestic affairs,

I don't find them useful today because we are living in dystopia everywhere in the West, in Asia, and other continents. So that's why I wanted to go deeper into this complexity that we are witnessing today everywhere.

And that's why I cannot... These are just nonsense coming from people like Benjamin Netanyahu or other experts on Middle Eastern region or Turkey. What do you make of Benjamin Netanyahu attempting to tie the Turkish government to Hamas to the Muslim Brotherhood? can you shed light on Turkey's stance towards Israel and what the truth of that is and why it appears like Benjamin Netanyahu is so concerned about the renewal of the sale of these F-35 bombers to the point where he's now gone on American cable news like I think three days in a row to try to get Trump to not do this? Yes, Turkey is one of the most pro-Palestinian nation in the world and one of the leading voices in the Middle Eastern region. And I'm not just speaking about the government or the rhetoric used by Turkish government

and Recep Tayyip Erdogan personally, but there's a huge public anger toward Israeli government, Israeli regime and what they're doing in Middle East, in Palestine, Lebanon and surrounding regions. So we're talking about public anger in Turkish, among Turkish people. Secondly, we are witnessing anti-Israeli or pro-Palestinian, let's say pro-Palestinian rhetoric coming from government. But there's also the relations going on behind the curtains

between Turkish government and Israeli government. That is to say that there is no disruption in financial or commercial relations between two countries. Turkey is facilitating the flow of Azerbaijani gas and oil to Israel. And there are many other allegations going about this stay behind, behind the current relations between Tel Aviv and Ankara. I'm not going into them now, But we should know that we should face the fact that there's this two-dimensional relationship going on in the region. One, we are witnessing a nation, a people, Turkish people, protesting for the rights of people in Gaza, in Palestine, and other countries that Israel is attacking.

And on the other hand, we have a government that is anti-Western, anti-Israeli on rhetoric, but still doing business with the Israelis. And we should not forget that the rise of Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his party coincided with the emergence of a new generation in Muslim Brotherhood in the Middle East, in other countries such as Egypt, Syria, Georgia, Jim Jordan, Tunisia, and so on. What made Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his part different in early 2000s was its so-called modest language. It's an idea that Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his Islamist policies could well behave and could well cooperate,

cohabit together with the secular life that was going on in Turkey. that was also celebrated by then President Obama, and Turkey was presented as a model for the whole Islamic world. And in those days, it was okay for Turkey and Recep Tayyip Erdogan to have and develop relations between Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and other Islamic factions and political parties in the region. Of course, this is history, and we know what happened in the last 15 to 20 years in the region. Now we are facing another reality where Mazan Brotherhood was persecuted and defeated in many countries.

But in Syria, we have another Islamic regime that is supported by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Ankara. And in the meantime, you have Hamas, Islamic Republic of Iran, that is waging war or resisting against Israeli intervention in the region. So Israel allegations have some kind of factual base, of course, about the Turkish and Hamas relations or Turkish and Muslim Brotherhood or Recep Tayyip Erdogan's relationship with Mazan Brotherhood. But still, this does not make Recep Tayyip Erdogan's government or Turkey itself as a supporter of terrorism or whatever those people wants to call it. So it's fascinating because this fits well into your piece about some of the contradictions of Turkey's role in NATO. Let's go back to the Cold War and how Turkey kind of became an anti-communist state that was beneficial for the West as a way to buttress or fortunate.

the West from communist influence and how that bleeds into today and their role in NATO. Turkey is a unique member of NATO and unique ally of the Western world, thanks to its geopolitical and geographical situation, how it is displaced on Earth. It is bordering Asia and Europe. It is connecting Black Sea and Mediterranean, Russia and West, Islam and Christianity. And that's why it was popular just after the Second World War, as it is today. Today it is bordering more than, I think, three ongoing conflicts in Iran, in Gaza and in Ukraine. So it has been a very important pillar of any kind of security. order, architecture of security, that is sought to be found.

If you want to construct a security order against Russia or Soviet, then Soviet Union, against Iran or then, I don't know, let's say Iraq, Egypt, whatever it was, you had to have Turkey together with you. Same goes for Turkish political decision makers. They were facing a threat, an imagined threat, sometimes an imagined threat, but a historical threat from the north that was Russian Empire, then Soviet Union, and today Russian Federation. That's why Ankara and the Western capitals had mutual interests.

they needed to cooperate. Of course, this is from their point of view. We're looking at the history retrospectively. And Ankara sought to be part of this Western Atlantic security order just after the Second World War. Again, NATO also needed Turkey and also Greece to strengthen their southeastern flank against Soviet incursion in Middle East.

and Mediterranean. That's why this cooperation started very well and also baptized with blood during the Korean War. Turkey sacrificed according to the official narrative, many of its sons in Korea. They fought for peace and free world. And then, of course, the governments in Turkey successfully sought American aid, military aid, financial aid. We are talking about a period where Europe needed to be reconstructed after the destruction of that horrible war,

and Turkey wanted to be a beneficiary. Also, this was a period of rapid social transformation in Turkey. Turkish capitalists, an emerging class, an emerging Turkish bourgeoisie, wanted Western capital, wanted to be supported, wanted to be part of this, larger global economic construction. And they started to cooperate in many fields.

Turkey led West NATO and the United States to have many military bases, searched for military aid, any forms of financial aid. And we are seeing that three different figures or three different actors. contributed to the rising anti-communism in Turkey in 50s, 60s, and 70s. That were a Turkish army in cooperation with their NATO allies, NATO colleagues, and then Turkish capitalists, which didn't want, who didn't want an organized left, who hated trade unionism that was Florida during that period.

Also, we are talking about a period. in which student organizations and student movements were, let's say, throwing industries into turmoil as in France and United States. And finally... Can we pause for... Oh, I'm sorry. Continue. And finally, those national conservative, we're just conservative elites.

Yes. Yes. Thank you. I apologize for cutting you off just before you were finished. Because I want to talk about this period a little bit more because I think, You know, it mirrors some of the other Western-backed governments that were, say, like, frontier states in the Cold War, this merging of nationalist forces, anti-communist forces and religious conservative forces in Muslim countries to, you know, as a way to fight communism. We're basically cobbling together an anti-communist coalition, and you still see that. that history to this day, how much of that history is still embedded in the Turkish government

and specifically the Recep Tayyip Erdogan era? Recep Tayyip Erdogan was a young Islamist militant at that time. He was in 60s and then 70s. He was mostly a poet and admirer of Islamist poets of that time. He liked playing football, but he went into politics later in his life. However, the previous president, who were a very close ally and a friend of Recep Tayyip Erdogan, which then turned to a competitor, a rival and enemy, the 11th president of Turkey. Then before him, the 8th president of Turkey were part of student organizations,

youth movements that were officially labeled as anti-communist league in Turkey. We also had the previous defense minister of Turkey, previous speaker of the parliament. They were and many other people coming from the circles of Turkish capital, politics, and even in military. they were active parties, militants of those anti-communist organizations in 60s and 70s. So we are talking about the heights of Turkey state, especially in the last 20 years. We are seeing them everywhere. And even before that, I think the most important break in Turkish history, the biggest turning point was in 1980 with the military coup,

that took place in September 12th, which turned Turkey into a fully-flashed neoliberal state, a national religious conservative neoliberal state. After 1980, most of the political elites were coming from those circles. So we are seeing the significance and importance of that heritage, that anti-communist, anti-socialist, anti-Soggiate youth movements and student organizations, how they impacted the current, the contemporary political scene in Turkey. And so that's moving into, I guess, maybe the 1980s,

we can talk about the coup as well, if you'd like. But it is such an important point that the current leaders and the infrastructure of the government in Turkey do come out of that. kind of anti-communist activism, and it still is that framework, as well as their role in NATO, too. So talk about the military coup and how, you know, it deepened, I guess, Turkey's perhaps, like, reliance on, on the West and a move, you know, against fully towards capitalism, basically. Before 1980, of course, Turkish politics had many problems, going back to 1950, when Turkey just passed into this multi-party political system, and then which facilitated, of course, Turkish accession to NATO in 1952. There were many problems, many issues going on with

Turkish politics, such as, I mean, from the civil rights to labor issues. issues from, we're talking about the height of Cold War, but 1980 was a real break point. Until then, we can qualify. We can talk about a Turkey state that was nationalist developmentalist, that had national, developmental policies, which we can also reframe as Kemalism, of course, which is at the heart of the liberal critic of Turkey, the scapegoat of Turkish history. Whenever the liberal historians or liberal politicians want to blame something in Turkey in current social atmosphere, they just blame Kemalism.

But Kemalism actually reigned up until, let's say, in 1980. After that, we are seeing a neoliberal. religious conservative standard style of governing style of rule in Turkey. The military regime lasted for two years. Then the general who led the junta military junta became the president. And then in 80s we started seeing the first neoliberal in the implementation of first neoliberal policies such as privatizations, and full accession of Turkey is to custom union with Europe. And then we're seeing the end of all these developmental policies,

encouraging of US and Western capital into the Turkish market, which was protected until 1980, banning of all left-wing civil organizations and trade. unions and then of course in the 90s most of those bans and prohibitions were much more let's say lightened but still we are with what we are witnessing today is a result of 1980 regime and Recep Tayyip Erdogan is also his predecessors his allies his supporters the mentality the coalition between the newly formed army, the newly formed capitalist circle, and of course, the religious, nationalist mentality, the elites, intellectuals, they changed Turkey. And after 1980, we have actually the same regime, the same regime is going on.

And Recep Tayyip Erdogan, what Recep Tayyip Erdogan changed is the facet of this regime. He, of course, transformed this regime into a one-man rule, a quasi-man rule. But unfortunately, we are seeing the unprotected nature of civil rights, rule of law, and other liberties in Turkey is a sad memory and heritance of this period. And I just think it's so important for people to understand that, you know, there's a lot of focus in the West on the religious fundamentalism and the lack of personal liberty, which is really important to point out. But it's usually framed in an Islamophobic way when speaking about Turkey and not as a creation of like the,

militarization that NATO and the United States engaged in because of Turkey's position as a state, a frontier state, and the arms that flowed in and the repression of the left, like that is just as much a part of the story, if not the dominant story, as the religious fundamentalism. But just focusing on the religious fundamentalism obscures. the role of the West in creating those conditions? Yes, religion, Islam, Christianity, or whatever it is, is a tool of social discipline. I'm not going into the cliche that is attributed to Marx, of course,

but it is used as a tool of social discipline after 1980 in Turkey. So in the absence of labor unions, in the absence of or in the against the threat of an emerging left, what you could put in motion is religion. And this was not, of course, something that is planified and implemented just by Ankara, just by Turkish generals or Turkish politicians or Turkish capitalists. It was done together with NATO, together in cooperation with other states. We should not forget that Recep Tayyip Erdogan,

was elected in 2002 and just before his election and after his election he visited Washington DC. He had several meetings with American politicians. He then after the election when he first became prime minister, he earned many awards from Western capitals because then many liberal. liberals thought that what Recep Tayyip Erdogan was doing was against the rule of military. He was boosting civil liberties that was prohibited from religious, pious civilians at that time, because according to this mentality, the Kemalist regime was oppressing Islam, oppressing religion in Turkey.

And they basically helped Recep Tayyip Erdogan's emergence and his image, especially in early 2000s, because that was also a period that Turkey tried to, it was a period of Turkish accession into the European Union. So everything was going well. Recep Tayyip Erdogan accepted the end of Turkish control over Cyprus, and many other issues were about to resolve. up until, of course, to the Arab, let's say, Arab Spring. I said Obama even celebrated Recep Tayyip Erdogan's and his modest, his pious Islamic tolerance, his policies.

The first country Obama visited just after his election was Turkey. He made a speech in Parliament in Ankara. I was just a child. I was amazed to see an American president on television in our capital. I remember that day. And he preached about Recep Tayyip Erdogan's policies and showed Turkey as a model for other countries in the Islamic world. And then, of course, with Arab Spring, the following migrant crisis in the region, in Europe and other continents, we see this rising Islamophobia as a new.

as a new trend in politics, as a new way to maybe reduce the public dissent in the West, because people were seeing the effects of neoliberal disorder everywhere. People were becoming unemployed. There were many things. There was huge mistrust between public, within population and governments all over Europe, States and Eastern Europe, then we were seeing that this Islamophobia was presented as a remedy or as the scapegoat of all the problems that were erupting in all our countries. And in late 2010s, we know that Erdogans and Turkish relations with Europe and the United States

were not so good as today. We didn't have any U.S. president in the last 11 years, and especially under Obama and Biden, relations were really strained between Ankara and Washington. And Recep Tayyip Erdogan was, and Turkish government was a scapegoat again. They were financing many Islamist organizations in Europe, according to this narrative. They were harboring Hamas.

and other terrorist organizations in Middle East. And of course, there are many ties relations going on between Turkish government and those organizations all over the countries. But these are not different from, I think, any relationship between a political party and their branches in a foreign country. And this is part of national interest, of course,

according to this bourgeois mentality. But still, I think this is tight how geopolitically, how the priorities of Western countries and Western aliens has changed over three decades. We are witnessing this. And today, again, Islamophobia is rising all over the West, maybe thanks to what's happening in Palestine. I mean, what the Israeli Prime Minister is saying for three years. And I hope this time the scapegoat won't be Palestinians or Iranians or any other Islamic government or population in the region. And Benjamin Netanyahu is attempting to renew that playbook and use that tired old playbook once again, as you say. Lastly, before we let you go, can you give us an update on the state of civil society,

and politics in Turkey today, what Trump's visit means domestically. And I know that there was ahead of the NATO summit, a crackdowns on protesters, arrests of protesters expressing dissent. Where are we at in the present moment? I was shocked by the large,

there is large and huge, huge breakdown over the protesters against NATO summit and NATO allies that were coming to Turkey. Hundreds of students, academics, politicians are arrested, beaten, according to some allegations and news supporters, beaten and tortured. But of course, we cannot say that this is an official image or the official orders coming from government. Still, there are all the allegations, but the situation is not bright. Hundreds of students, they cannot access their families, they cannot reach out their families, and this is a huge problem because these young people, they only wanted to protest against

against the policies that left people in Palestine, Iran, Lebanon in Wayne, which is, of course, again, in line in parallel with what Recep Tayyip Erdogan has been saying for months, four years. So we are not seeing any difference between what Ardoin has been seeing and what people are protesting here. Even, you know, two Islamist activists were arrested. Those two Islamist activists, female activists, were, again, they were part of a Turkish mission in 2009 to deliver aid to Gaza, which created the first great, great, first big crisis between Israel and Turkish governments in 199.

sorry, 2009. And they were in that boat, Mavi Marmara. And just two days ago, those two women, they were arrested because they protested NATO. So we are seeing a huge hypocrisy. And this hypocrisy is creating, I think, a huge echo in Turkish public. but the government tries to present a success story try to present a geopolitical success story victory story to their electoral base

there are many television channels mainstream channels portray how Trump fly through Europe they watched his playing what he ate how he handshaked with Recep Tayyip Erdogan how he was smiling how he must just in good manners with Recep Tayyip Erdogan

because having good relationship with U.S. president is a huge tool of legitimacy in Turkey as the current American ambassador, U.S. ambassador said months ago, United States is giving legitimacy. It's offering legitimacy to this government. And there's this dichotomy going on. There's huge public anger against the breakdown of protesters, but still government tries to present, like everything, is soap opera, many good presidents, prime ministers, NATO members, delegates, they were in our capital.

They accepted Turkish position in many international issues. Trump likes our president and everything is fine. But this is nothing. So appealing to the national pride as a way to paper over all the contradictions that we just laid out, or you just did for us and our audience. Oltuna, a historian and writer, you can read his piece in Jacobin, Turkey's key role in NATO is no contradiction. I really appreciate your time today and shedding some light on Turkish politics, which I need some help with.

from someone who's Turkish themselves. Great peace in Jackman. Thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for your kindness and for your time. Thank you for having me. Of course. With that, we are going to wrap up the free part of this program

and head into the fun half, where I will take some calls again today. We'll read some IMs. I mean, look, don't say it, Brian. Brian's like, why are you such a glutton for punishment? I don't understand. At a certain point, there are more important things. Yes, yeah.

You know, the war in Iran. I mean, like continuing. No, of course. I mean, that's why, you know. There's a certain, like, glee in the self-flagellation. I wouldn't necessarily go as far as Ken Klippenstein did on his blog. Did you see what he posted? I did see what he posted.

I love Ken. Look, like Graham Platner has to drop out, but the process needs to be democratic and reflective of what happened in Maine in this primary. and also there's a whole bunch of other news. Yeah, no, I'm, we'll open up the phone lines and I anticipate that it won't just be all Plattenor calls. Maybe I'm having, like, I'm being too optimistic about that. We'll take a couple of platinum calls and then close the phone lines. Okay. That's all it is.

All right. All right. Well, we'll see. You know, we'll open up the phones. We'll have some fun. Matt, what's happening on Left Reckoning and was the Jacobin show? Yeah, Left Reckoning. You were on it yesterday talking about a lot of this stuff.

So, as we said, we've discussed it. now. 14,000 people have already checked that out, so thank you, Emma, for coming on that. And we also talk about McMorrow, Haley Stevens, nestle in the Michigan Senate race, too. So check that out, folks. Patreon.com, so I'm sure for record. Check that out. Yeah, we'll be talking more about that as well on the fun half. That's a fun center race to get excited about because last night, Abdul El-Sayed and A-PAC plant, Haley Stevens, had a debate, and there's some fun clips. So we'll get into that.

Maybe we'll start the fun half off with that. As a reminder, this show relies on your support. Join the Majority Report.com. Also, let's keep this DSA momentum going, huh? Now more than ever. Now more than ever. Let's get back to the good feelings.

DSA is where it's at. Veting candidates, putting forward candidates that are democratically agreed upon within the structure of DSA. Seems like it's kind of a good idea. giving what we've been through here. Do we have that link for myself? On Tuesday, the 14th, at 8.30 p.m. Eastern, I am going to be the special guest for the introduction of DSA's 2026, 2027 program. It's the workers deserve more program launch.

It's virtual. You can find the link down below in the video and episode descriptions, and I will be moderating, introducing, having some fun with our DSA friends. So check it out, folks. And if you want the link, it's go.dsausa.org slash worker WDM, which stands for workers deserve more, dash Emma. And the link is down below. On that note, I'll also say, Taylor Austin Harper of the Atlantic, had a Grace Mouser co-chair of NYC DSA on to talk about DSA's vetting process. Oh, well, I'm glad that they're having that conversation.

Seems like, you know, DSA knew what it was doing on that front. And we do have news about a new DSA endorsement, Cori Bush. Cori Bush. Let's go, St. Louis. Let's go. The only Bush I would ever want in office. Yeah, good point. All right, guys.

See you in the fun half. Okay, Emma, please. Well, I just, I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report. Wait, whoa. Look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show. It is Thursday.

Yeah, I think you need to do a program for Sam. That's cool. No, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause you right there. Wait, what? You can't encourage Emma to live like this. And I'll tell you why. So it's offered a twerk, sushi, and poker with the boys. Twir?

Sushi and poker with the boys. Who was offered a twer? Yeah. Sushi and poker with the boys. What? Twerp. Sushi and poker.

Tim's upset. Twer. Sushi and poker with the boys. It was offered a twer. Sushi and... That's what we call the biz. Twerp.

Sushi and poker with the boys. Right. Twerp. Sushi and... We're going to get demonitized. I just think that what you did to Tim Poole was mean. Free speech. That's not what.

we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about it because I think you're responsible. I probably am in a certain way, but let's get to the meltdown here. Twir? Ugh. Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh my God. Wow. Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my fucking mind. So it's offered a twir? Yeah. Sushi and poker with the boys. Logic. Twerp. Sushi and poker with the boys. Boy, boy, boy. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Add this debate seven thousand times. A little kid.

I think I'm like a little kid. A kid. I'm losing my fucking mind. Some people just don't understand. So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but like, I absolutely think the U.S. should be providing me with life and kids. That's not what we're talking about here. It's not a fun job. That's a real thing.

That's a real thing. Willie Walker. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. That offered a twirl. That's a real thing. That's a real thing, real thing, that's the real thing. That's a real thing.

That's a real thing. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. Offered it to work. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. I think he might be blowing that out proportion. Real thing.

That's a poker with the boys. Offered it, twerk. That's a real thing. That's a poker. Let's go, Joe. Tour. Sushi and poker with the boy. Take it easy for.

Toh. Sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of pants. Sushi and poker with the boys. It's illusion. Twers. You don't have a clue as to what's going on. Live YouTube.

Sam has like the way to the world on the shoulders. Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore. It was so much easier. When the majority report was just you, you were happy. Let's change the subject. Rangers and Nick are you're going great. Now, shut up. Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

That's one of the most difficult parts about this show. This is a pro-killing podcast. I'm thinking maybe it's kind of buried the hatchet. Left is best. Violet twerk? Don't be foolish, and don't fucking tweet at me, and don't get changed. The way that I just cucked, all of these people. Love it.

That's for my hardest, so I wrote my honor's thesis about it. Oh, I guess I should hand the main mic to you now. You are to the right of the unformed policy. We already fund Israel, dude. Are you against us? That's a tougher question. I don't have an answer to you.

theme song i bumbler emma viglin absolutely one of my favorite people actually not just in the game like period