NC News Roundup: calls for Rep. Cecil Brockman's resignation; UNC football falters under Belichick leadership

This is due south on WUNC. I'm Jeff Tiberi. A state lawmaker has been arrested, accused of multiple sex crimes with a minor. The governor is among those calling for immediate resignation. While the criminal justice process takes effect, he cannot be effective representing his constituents, and he should resign. But what happens if Cecil Brockman doesn't step down? We'll ask that question this hour on our Friday News Roundup. At the federal level, a shutdown plods along, and Senator Thom Tillis weighs in on the National Guard deployments. If the deployment of the National Guard to Chicago or Portland is necessary, do you believe that that's a best practice or just a necessary evil until we regen the extraordinary work I've seen on Joint Task Forces every day in North Carolina? Dousalph, after the news.

the studios of North Carolina Public Radio in Chapel Hill. This is Do South on listeners-supported WUNC. Welcome in. Glad to have you along for the Friday ride. As always, it's the North Carolina News Roundup. I'm Jeff Tiberi. We've got politics shut down and football coming in just a moment. Democrat Cecil Brockman from Guilford County was held without bond after his arrest. There are growing calls for him to resign. Extensive claims of dysfunction inside the UNC locker room under Coach Bill Belichick. Numerous reports that Belichick and North Carolina were already engaged in negotiations to lower the coach's buyout. I'm having a real struggle right now with the National Guard being deployed and masking the abject failure of leaders at the state and local level. I'm just trying to figure out how the Eastern Band of the Cherokee are legally transporting what they're growing at scale here. to what they're advertising in Charlotte on the billboards is one of the country's largest dispensaries. All right, plenty to get to on this Pledge Drive edition Roundup. We're going to begin here in Chapel Hill with the saga mess, growing absurdity, quite frankly, that is the Carolina football program. Let me just acknowledge off the top. This is not necessarily the biggest news story of the week. However, we have an excellent guest to help us sort through some of what's going on, and he has a limited window of availability. So Pat Welther, sports reporter and anchor at WRL television, welcome to do South. Yeah, no, thanks for having me on. Like, things are happening as we speak. I'm just kind of constantly cycling through my kind of roll decks of forces at different levels of UNC. Seeing what else we could find out because it seems to be changing by the day, by the hour, and some cases by the minute. All right. So your report this week detailed dysfunction within the program, faulty leadership stemming from head coach Bill Belichick that has created a toxic work environment. That's a phrase that has come from some of your sources. In subsequent reporting from WRL, we learned that university officials had to... kindly remind football players this week that they're not allowed to sell their complimentary game tickets. That's an NCAA violation. And in case that all wasn't enough, reports then emerge, not from you, to be clear, that Coach Belichick has already been in discussions to trigger his buyout and that assistant coaches are readying to go elsewhere in, quote, a matter of weeks, close quote. Belichick and the athletic director, Bubba Cunningham, have denied that reporting. Let's start there. What have they said?

Yeah, so when I called around yesterday about that piece, those two pieces there, the exit strategies and the triggering of the own buyout, I received from multiple levels at UNC decision makers as well as my colleague, Brian Murphy, that neither of those reports were true. Now, does that necessarily mean it is 100%? You don't know what I mean? Like you're taking these sources within UNC's board for what it is, right? This is just me talking out loud here. Like, who's to say that conversations weren't happening? You know what I mean? But people, it's a fine line, right? Like, what does that mean exactly, right? So all I could share is what I was told, and I was told that those things never happened. And they were emphatic about it. And when it comes to the statement, you know, I was trying to figure out, like, okay, why the statement just late at night? Why is the statement so brief? And that's kind of what I was trying to understand. And kind of the background I got there was that they felt that they, you know, they needed to address the kind of rumors that it kind of really. kind of used what the way it was phrased. It kind of, you know, snowballed, really. It became the story, like, oh, my gosh, are they going to, are they going to fire him or is he going to walk away? So it kind of needed to be addressed in some way. And so that's kind of the story there. Sure. From their standpoint, it wasn't acknowledging that the rumors were true or anything. It was just like, hey, let's kind of put it into this. Let's cool the jet, put the focus back on football, and try to get this thing back on track, five games in. to Belichick's tenure in Chapel Hill. Right. And as you note, it was a relative, not relatively, it was an extremely brief statement, right? It was Coach Belichick is committed to the rebuilding of the football program. It was literally a sentence, unless I missed part of it, which on some level perhaps only adds to the intrigue of, well, if you're here, and I know Belichick can be relatively brief, but isn't there more to say than that? We've only got a little bit of time with you here, Pat, but, you know, among the developments this week, we noted that there were potentially some complimentary games. tickets, the players were receiving and then selling, which is a violation. A coach, if I've got it right, was suspended last night. What's going on there? Yeah, the suspension has kind of been. All but confirmed the last several days. Like I learned that this coach wasn't at practice several days ago and that the team was told it was for personal business. Then the athletic formerly reported that he was suspended. And then the conversations I had UNC to get that actually confirmed. It never happened. other conversations, it kind of was all, all the true without being said, right? Like, I knew he wasn't there. The athletic reported it. I think the key piece here, too, is that, you know, we are looking further into this, right? You get a coach suspended, which was a result of our reporting about some of these extra benefits that were happening at UNC.

I know that our reporting triggered their investigation into it and their decision to do it as they look into all these things themselves. And to their credit, like UNC is working with me with this. I'm working with them. I'm letting them know in fairness. And they're trying to let me know in their fairness what they think we have incorrect. I'm trying to run out information by them. So it's, you know, it's a process. And we're going through that right now with this story about Armand Hawkins. Just trying to look into, okay, so what else is going on here? If you look at the statement last night, talks about what we already knew, which is the extra benefits, but then I'll read it to you. Here I have it. He will remain on leave as the Department of Athletics further investigates other potential actions detrimental to the team in university. And this statement came basically immediately after we kind of sent some of the stuff that we were looking into to them for response. So I think there's, you know, It's a process. This is a process. We are looking into things. UNC. is looking into things themselves. And that's all I can really ask of them, you know, like people are upset right now. UNC is one of, went from a proud football program that obviously wish they were better. And now they are. To quote a apparent source, they're a laughing stock. Yeah. You know, people don't want to say they play for UNC right now. And people are scared internally just about, you know, there's so much information coming out. People are looking at each other, you know, who's it coming from. So, but at the same time, I've also heard that the team is trying to unite over this. Like, they're trying to get the focus back on football. But, like, it's, it's, the blame isn't on, like, the reporters that are reporting this. The blame is on the situation that was created, correct? Like, obviously the player in the field has been so bad that these be answers, right? You know, like, and we're trying to shed light on that. Right. Oh, yeah. No, no. You don't need to defend yourself to me or anybody as far as I'm concerned. Pat Welter of WRL television is with us. This has been my term here. Now, this has been an unmitigated disaster through a month and change. This is a $50 million and then some investment. North Carolina, by some statistical standards, has been... almost as bad as any Carolina football team that they have ever put forth on the field. And it most recently culminated with a 38 to 10 loss at home against Clemson. The heels are off this week. Just 60 seconds or so, Pat, before we release you back to your reporting, what's next in this saga? I mean, you notice, you note that Carolina has become something of a punchline just recently through this whole ordeal. What can we expect? Is it going to calm down? Is it going to get that? What are you anticipating here in the coming hours, days, or weeks? Yeah, well, now you've got, you know, every major reporter in the country is looking into this, at least in the college football space, right? So, you know, if there's more things to come out. And I know there are things that I'm looking into that I can't report, but I'm looking into. And I'm sure other people have those as well. So, you know, if those things happen to be true, we're going to have more news to talk about. And you would see he's going to have to assess that. And they're going to have to make a decision. You know, I mean, like you said, those are your words? You said it's in an unmitigated disaster. I mean.

It's hard to argue with a team that was once, you know, really competitive in the ACC now being a team that's literally statistically one of the worst in all of college football. Take all of this drama that we're getting from anonymous sources out of it. The play on the field has been poor enough to warrant a potential decision or consideration of this ending after one season. So, you know, they got a lot on their hands. You know, they took a big swing. You know, in a way, I don't blame them for that. And I'm complicit in the height, too. Like, I was excited. Everybody was excited. That first game versus CCU was awesome until it wasn't. And it has been pretty bad ever since. And I feel bad for really everybody involved. And as far as Bill Belichick, I just think. He's going to have to answer questions on Monday at the podium, right? And I think we deserve more than what he's given us. I'll just say that. You know, when he's got these press conferences saying, just really not acknowledging really the temperature of the room at all. And I think that would help a lot. That's me talking, but I think that would go a long way. Just that's a starting point. Pat Welter, WRL Sports Anchor and reporter. Pat, you're a busy man. Thank you for hopping on the roundup with us. Of course. Appreciate your time. Thank you. All right. One note of levity before we kick it to Pledge of Drive Central, which is Bill Belichick started his New England Patriots career with a five and 11 season, and then they won six Super Bowls. Just to offer a little levity. I'm not saying this thing is necessarily over. There is a long season before the heels here. It has been a mess thus far. We will stay tuned. This is the Friday News Roundup on listeners supported due south right here on WUNC. Welcome back to the Friday News Roundup on Dues South. I'm Jeff Tiberi. 28 years ago today, the Carolina Hurricanes won their first game. Now, of course, the franchise had won plenty of games prior to that as the Hartford Whalers, but it wasn't until October the 10th in 1997 when the Keynes got their first win at 2-1 victory against the New Jersey Devils. The Hurricanes played home games that season at the Greensboro Coliseum. Last night, as in just, you know, last night, the canes opened this... Current season with a win against those New Jersey Devils. Final score, 6.3. All right. Our journalists here with us for the remainder of the hour. No more Belichick talking list. You make us go there. Our Zachary Eans, reporter at Axios Rale, Nathan Susan Collins, investigative reporter at the News and Observer and Danielle Betaglia, Capitol Hill correspondent at McClatchie. Thank you all for being here. Yeah, thanks for having us. All right. Federal shutdown. Now in day 10. Danielle, any cracks in the corners here? Significant movement toward a deal. It does not appear that way. We had our seventh vote last night to try to reopen the government. And really what we were trying to do is pass a continuing resolution to keep the government funded at its current levels until November 21st, giving them more time to negotiate, which sounds funny while they're trying to negotiate anyways. That seventh vote failed. And they are now on a four-day break. This is the Senate we're talking about. They will come back on Tuesday for their eighth vote. I expect that to fail again. And the House announced this morning they will not be coming back on Tuesday. They've been out, I think, since the 14th or the 19th. Tuesday will mark two weeks that we have been shut down. I guess I want to illustrate, I'm going to make sure I've got this right, but illustrated as well. So you're talking about like a partial of a partial, like just a measure, a modicum of movement forward.

to get things going for a little while to maybe negotiate the broader pieces. But to that point, you've had seven of these votes in the U.S. Senate. Have they all broken the same way? Are we getting closer to a short-term spending? No, okay. No, I mean, the Democrats are very, they're holding tight right now. They want health care. Reform is not the right word, but they're negotiating on health care for Americans. They want Medicaid cuts to go back to what they were before the one big, beautiful bill, and they want tax credits that are found in the Affordable Care Act to continue, and Republicans haven't been negotiating on that. The interesting thing is we're starting to see Republicans start to break on the ACA cuts or tax credits and say that we need to do something there. So it'll be interesting to see how that goes into negotiation. but so far neither side is budging. Nathan, you recently wrote about federal workers, some federal workers working and living here in North Carolina who are still showing up to work despite not being paid, despite Trump administration officials now floating the idea of not instituting back pay, which is required by law. Who did you talk to and how are they doing? Right. So I... I talked to a social security administration worker who basically told me, you know, she's worked for the administration for a while, has been through, you know, different federal government shutdowns. And she told me the way that she prepares for these is by picking and choosing what bills she's going to pay on time and which ones that she feels she can. kind of let go. I mean, she told me that if she racks up a hundred, you know, a couple hundred dollars in late credit card fees, then that's better than not having any, you know, disposable income to buy food, to pay for gas to get to her job, even though, you know, it's unclear when she'll be receiving a paycheck next. And is there, I mean, it's not on the entities. It's not on the government offices. But is there any emergency relief that, you know, the middle management, so to speak, is able to offer to people? Because we know a lot of people in this country are living paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. So she basically told me that the administration in the past has given, you know, workers basically letters to give to their. creditors to give to their landlords that basically says, you know, gives a rundown of, you know, what happens to federal workers during a government shutdown. You know, but at the end of the day, she said, you know, the banks don't have to honor that, right? Right. It's not legally binding or anything. Yeah, they're all waiting for their payments. The credit car company is waiting for their payment. The utility companies are waiting for their payments. It seems like it's a pretty rough situation. I don't think... any of us would like to show up for work, not knowing when our next paycheck is going to hit our bank account. No, I sure wouldn't. And the thought now also, I mean, it just adds this level, I would imagine, of stress to the employees as they hear.

administration officials say, and we might try to just claw back. It's not clawback, not disperse back pay. I mean, that's something that, to be clear, has always, I believe, always happened in these government shutdowns. You don't get paid for however long the last one a few years ago was just beyond a month. But then folks got paid. So if you missed two billing cycles, it was reflected or it came in to not to lose a month. I mean, to lose 10, 12 percent of what you make in a year. That's, that's a. a huge reduction of pay for a lot of people. So we will stay tuned on this. All right. State level. Legislature, Cecil Brockman, Democratic State House Representative of Guilford County, is facing a chorus of calls to step down. Brockman was recently arrested for indecent liberties with a child, statutory rape among the charges. The charging documents allege that an incident took place in August, after which time Brockman, who is 41 years old, attempted to have further contact with this teenager. Zach Greens, what more can you tell us about this? Yeah, we're still waiting on his first court appearance. He was supposed to appear yesterday in Guilford County and had some sort of medical emergency at the jail and was taken to a local hospital. And so he's supposed to be in court today. at 2 p.m., I believe, is the time. And, you know, the truth is, I mean, while the chorus for calls for his resignation have really, you know, I mean, basically the entire leadership, both Republican and Democratic, have called for him to resign now. You know, there is still obviously due process that has to play out here. But, I mean, certainly the allegations here are horrible. Danielle Bataglia, you are on the Zoom. You had something out here. Please jump in. Yeah, from our reporting, we understand that the first appearance got moved to 1130 this morning. We have somebody in the courtroom who was not allowed to bring a cell phone in, so we haven't gotten an update on what's going on with that first appearance. But we do understand he was supposed to make that first appearance. Got it. Okay. Do we have any sense of what this medical emergency was yesterday? Is that we don't know. Okay. So there are these... Growing calls for him to step down, as you know, Zach Green's on the Republican and Democratic side, House members, state legislators, House or Senate can step away from the legislature. We have seen that before for different circumstances. If Cecil Brockman doesn't resign, he can be removed. He can be removed, but it would take a House vote to expel him. You know, I think, I mean, this has been done before, you know, as recently as 2008, a, you know, Representative Thomas Wright was expelled for some campaign finance issues. And, you know, I guess given that...

both sides of the aisle are calling for his resignation. I mean, I have to imagine that it could be a real possibility if it gets to that point. Yeah. Interesting. Due South, Friday News Roundup here on listener. Supported WUNC. Quick programming reminder, Monday on Due South, an hour of health care. You can learn more about changes to Medicaid, both changes that are arriving from the state and federal levels. And you'll hear from a mother, a Winston-Salem mom, who is advocating on behalf of her profoundly disabled son. Those stories as well as the tale of one insurance company failing a patient who was in crisis. Monday, health care, due south, please join us. I want to circle back to hockey. I noted the Keynes anniversary a few moments ago, first wind, 28 years ago. This week, Mr. Eans, you wrote about the growth of youth hockey, attributable in part to the success of the hurricanes. Tell us more. Yeah, I think it's a two-pronged sort of story. I think certainly the success of the hurricanes now. I mean, they've almost... been here in the triangle for 30 years. Wow. So now you've got sort of multiple generations of kids who have now grown up and are having kids, right? And, you know, they've made the playoffs for eight straight years. And if you get swept up in that excitement, you're going to games, I think that's really having an effect on sort of what sports people in the triangle are interested in playing growing up. You know, on top of that, it's a demographic one. We have, you know, since the 90s, we've attracted so many people from parts of the country that grew up playing hockey. And so there's sort of this double whammy of demographics and success. And the Keynes, for their part, really contributed to success. They have something called the First Net Program, I believe it's called, where they subsidize equipment for children to get them interested. Because that's, I mean, honestly, one of the biggest barriers to getting into hockey is it's an incredibly expensive sport. And they will, you know, help subsidize sort of, you know, if you're... five or six year old is interested in trying out, you know, hockey, they will help subsidize some of these things and get them going. Because it can be several thousand dollars. Oh, easily. Yeah. And not to mention, like, one of the biggest issues once you actually sort of get to your teenage years is to play competitive hockey while it's growing in relevance here in the triangle. You still have to go up to the northeast, up to Minnesota. to the Midwest, places like that to play really competitive hockey. And so the costs really do add up. So I think the floor has really been raised in terms of the amount of hockey played here, but there's still sort of a ceiling. Can you quantify the growth through, I don't know, participation or ice rinks, or is there a way to? Well, yeah, certainly. I mean, in the past, so the junior canes have a team, but in the past decade. Two more teams have really formed. So there's at least three super competitive youth hockey teams. The number of registered hockey players in the southeast in general, you know, the 90s were sort of a sunbelt expansion era for the NHL. Yeah. You know, there was less than like 10,000 registered USA hockey players in the southeast in the 90s. That's great. And now it's, you know, nearing 70,000. Wow. Which is, you know, obviously a huge increase. But still, I mean, it's still not like...

You know, youth baseball or something like that. Right. But you see it on TV. You see the billboards. You see the cane's bumper stickers. And that has residual impacts across central North Carolina and really the southeast. Bottom of the hour here on the Do South Friday News Roundup. Trivia time. Email, please. Your guess is to do south at WNC.org. Grand Prize is a snazny new DoSouth mug. Now, remember, there's not a phone number here. And if you're reaching to go with an 800 number, you are encouraged to call a pledge number. But if you call into pledge, they are not looking for your trivia answers. Here's a question. In the email address, do south at WNC.org. State fair begins next week. Last year, a new single-day attendance record was set when 86,000 people went to the fair on Senior Day. When the fair was first held back in 1853, what was the largest single day turnout? I'm going to break ranks here. You can blurt out an answer if you want. I'm not going to... In 1853? In 1853, what was the single-day attendance record? Oh, my God. That's the closest to is going to get a D-South mug, D-South at WUNC.org. Mull it over. I'll come back in a bit. Yeah, here we go. All right, Danielle Bataglia, I want to hear from you about a couple of people, and we might not do both of them now, but we'll do the other one later. Two North Carolinians are now members of the Trump administration. Let's start with Neil Jacobs Jr. of Durham. What's he up to? Who is he? He's going to be leading NOAA, which is the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration. Nailed it. Nailed it. Good. So he's going to be leading Noah. He has actually... Quite the past doing that kind of work. And so he is now Senate approved to lead Noah. I think that happened on Wednesday and just needs to be officially sworn in. I'm not sure that if that's happened or not yet because there's so much going on in the world that they haven't been so vocal about who's being sworn in and not. But that is next step. And do I have it right that this is take two for Neil Jacobs Jr.? Like he was up previously? Why didn't he make it and why was this time more of a breeze? Yeah, so last time he was up for the job and he never, there was a lot going on behind the scenes and I don't remember exactly the like mechanisms that went into this, but he was up. He never made it to a floor vote. the last time and then Trump left office. And so he never got to become no administrator. This time he made it to that floor vote. All right. Brief, I'll give you about a minute here. State legislator Gerard Lowry, Jared Lowry, Republican of Robinson County, joined the Trump team this week. What is his new role?

He's going to be in Indian Fairs, which is part of the Department of Interior. This is probably a good move for him for his base because he is part of the Lumby tribe who's trying to get federal recognition for the Lumbyes of North Carolina. They've been fighting since 1888 to get federal recognition. They technically have it through an act in 1956 from Congress, but that act did not give them the federal benefits that they needed. This is probably the closest they've been to getting that federal recognition with benefits and having him on the Bureau of Indian Affairs really helps. And remind us, President Trump has signaled support of full federal recognition for the Lumby, correct? Yeah. One of the first executive orders he signed was to find a path forward for legal recognition for them with full benefits. There was 90 days that the Department of Interior was supposed to. get a report together for him on how to do that. That report has not been released publicly on their plan, but most people believe that that plan included congressional action to make that happen. We did see it in the National Defense Authorization Act on the House side. They've approved that federal recognition in that side. Last night, the Senate did their own version of the NDAA. That did not include that. amendment, which I think is because it came up so fast that Thom Tillis didn't have the time to move it into the bill. But they're going to do a conference committee report and figure out the differences between the two bills and figure out whether it makes it in there or not. So stay tuned. Stay tuned. Thom Tillis, drop a footnote. Perhaps we'll chat more about the senior senator from North Carolina with Danielle Bataglia here in a few minutes. She is with us. On the roundup, Danielle's Capitol Hill correspondent for the news and observer. Nathan Susan Collins is here as well. He's an investigative reporter at the N&O, and Zachary Eans, reporter at Axios Raleigh, is on our roundtable as well. We'll be back in just a few moments. This is due south from listener-supported WUNC. Welcome back to listener support of WNC. It's due South Friday News Roundup. Born on this day in North Carolina history, Thelonius Monk, the legendary jazz pianist who created such hits as Straight No Chaser, Blue Monk, and Round Midnight. Thelonius, who largely grew up in New York City, was born on this day in Rocky Mount 108 years ago. All right, we've got Nathan Susan Collins, Zachary Ains, and Danielle Batagli. I'm taking a right turn. No one knows what I'm going to do this. Nathan, you're a musician. We weren't going to go here, but you are, I mean, you're a journalist. Now, you were a musician, and I was like, wait a second. Like, I just got to see if, like, Nathan has, like, a jazz connection or a Tholone's connection or a... Oh, I love Monk. All right. Yeah, no personal connection, obviously, but, like, wow, yeah. What a great way, I could go. I could talk for hours. And you're like, are you a pianist as well? Like, you play saxophone. I play saxophone. I can play piano, mainly a saxophone player. I feel like if my professors were listening to me, they'd be like, yeah, he can play piano.

Air quotes. Go ahead. Put on the North Carolina collab, the Thelonious Monk John Coltrane album. We'll see if they can fire that up in the control room before we duck out today. I'm a sucker for music, and I would also share that I was a trumpet player growing up and not a piano player, but I had braces. And I struggled so much early on to play the trumpet that I learned to play. I taught myself play the piano with one hand so I could hear something before I played it. I am not a piano player, but I would like to be someday. All right, we have news to discuss here on the Friday News Roundup. I'm sorry to go off course here, but you had me there for a second. Nathan, you have... written at several terms recently about the Rivers Prison in Hertford County. They are hoping to land an ice contract, which would allow for obviously some major development there. Tell us the basic contours of Rivers Prison in Hertford County. Right. Yeah. And so just to start out, I have to give a shout out to Phoebe Zurwick and Natalie Jennings from the Down from DC newsletter who first broke the news after they looked at recent. investor call transcripts that the GEO group, which is a very large private prison company here, released and just kind of confirmed that they're looking to reactivate some of these shuttered prisons, one of them being the Rivers Prison in Hertford. You know, once I got onto the story, I started looking back. more of those investor logs transcripts and, you know, basically found out that this plan has been in the works for years ever since the Biden administration tried to phase out private prison contracts at the federal level. I think, you know, once the company saw the Trump administration, you know, inching towards power and just kind of talking about this kind of mass immigration plan that they realized that they could capitalize. And so far since the beginning of the year, they've landed multiple contracts that are valued at, you know, over a billion dollars. But they are looking at the Rivers Prison trying to score an ICE contract there to reopen that. Got confirmation from Representative Don Davis's office that he actually met with the GEO group at the end of last year where they briefed him on their plans that they were looking to get a contract to reopen this prison. Davis represents the area. Right. You know, where Democratic Congressman, yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I talked to some of the local officials in Hertford County and, you know, they said, you know, we would love for it to be reopened because it was a really, you know.

economic boost. And when it closed down, a lot of people lost their jobs. So kind of an interesting dynamic. Yeah. So I guess where do things stand? And Davis, who just as a reminder to listeners, is one of 14 U.S. House members from North Carolina and the representative who is in the squishiest of seat, the most competitive of seats. Where is he on this issue? So, you know, after I got confirmation from his office that he met with the GEO group, kind of. didn't get really any more answers from them about, you know, where this is going. You know, the GEO group is, I think they are scheduled to have an investor call at the beginning of next month where they'll release this quarter's earnings and kind of plan out where they're going next. So there could be more information during that call. Hmm. Interesting. All right. We'll stand by on that one. Danielle, I mentioned the name Thom Tillis earlier, and of course the... A senior U.S. Senator from North Carolina is not seeking re-election next year. This has freed him up, I suppose, to some degree, to talk about some certain things. And he was at a Senate hearing this week, weighing in on this effort by the Trump administration to deploy national guardsmen and members in Chicago and Portland, among other locales. What are the takeaways from what Thom Tillis had to say this week? Yeah, so he was talking to Attorney General Pam Bondi and had concerns about he basically said he's not concerned about the deployment to Washington, D.C. or Chicago. He understands some of the National Guard deployments and why they're doing it. But his overall concern is that he believes that President Donald Trump is looking basically out for the best interest of the community and their safety, but looking forward at. the next presidency and believing that Donald Trump is, I shouldn't say believing because he is going to be term limited. What happens next? And are we bandating a problem with local state and county leaders that aren't being addressed if we're sending in the National Guard? Because essentially we're making them an arm of local law enforcement, state law enforcement. basically having them mask a bigger issue with the crime in our communities instead of having local leaders address those issues. And he believes that that needs to be addressed at the ballot box and that the community needs to be aware of how bad the problem is instead of letting the National Guard come in and clean it up and not. letting people know what's going on with their local leaders. I know you can't speak for Thom Tillis, but I might ask you to maybe speak for him or glean from him something in some way here. So there's this effort to send National Guard members into numerous cities, okay? But Tell us at the hearing this week said, said out loud, Charlotte should not be on that list. These are his words. He said, no Charlotte. You better take Charlotte off that list. What's the difference?

Hopefully you get the records. Yes. Hopefully they hear your requests and they grant them to you. A big thanks to our panel. Zachary Eans, reporter Axios Raleigh, Danielle Batagli, a Capitol Hill correspondent, Amclatchi, and Nathan Susan Collins, investigative reporter at the News and Observer. We're leaving you with Thelonious Monk and John Coltrane, a couple of North Carolina jazz legends on this Friday. Thanks, as always, for tuning in to D-South for previous offerings this week and other episodes. Head to WUNC.org backslash DoSouth. or subscribe wherever you do that on-demand listening. My name is Jeff Tabiri. This is Due South on listeners-supported WUNC. Each story you hear on Planet Money starts with a question. What happens if we refund tariffs? Why are groceries so expensive? At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious because the forces shaping our world can be hard to see. Follow NPR's Planet Money wherever you get your podcast and start seeing how the economy really works.