Food banks and government shutdown; Helene relief reimbursement delays; sustainable Halloween costumes

This is due south on WUNC. I'm Jeff Tiberi. More North Carolinians are uncertain about where their next meal will come from. Food insecurity is a growing problem as assistance programs are being cut. The state is going to have to step up and provide some additional resources to pay for SNAP grocery support and likely Medicaid health care coverage as well if we don't want to see that poverty number spike significantly. And later, making the most out of something. This Halloween, we learn about creative, recycled costumes. It doesn't even have to be sustainability-based. It's also about, like, bringing people together. I think a beautiful tradition is people around a table sewing together, talking about what they're making and what it means to them. Do South gets going after the news.

North Carolina Public Radio in Chapel Hill. This is due south on listener-supported WUNC. I'm Jeff Tiberi. Food insecurity is increasing across central and eastern North Carolina. Today, more than 6007,000 people are food insecure in our region. This is according to the nonprofit organization, Feeding America. That figure represents an increase of almost 10% from just a year ago. This uptick in need overlaps with federal funding cuts to SNAP benefits and food assistant programs. It also coincides with the United States Department of Agriculture's decision last month to end a longstanding annual food insecurity survey. Jason Kennewani Stefani is the vice president of the Food Bank of Central and Eastern North Carolina and joins us now to help us better understand what are some of the... factors at play. Jason, welcome to do south. Thanks for having me. All right. Food insecurity is increasing across our region. What are some of or the biggest contributing factors? Yeah, you know, a lot of people don't realize, but we have more people facing food insecurity today than we did even at the peak of the pandemic when so many of us lost jobs and income and loved ones. There are over 150,000 more people who don't know where their next meal is coming from in our area. than even at that time. And there are a number of factors that have contributed to this. Obviously, the cost of living for anybody who lives in the Triangle area along the coast or really anywhere in the central or eastern portions of the state knows that the cost of housing has gone up. The cost of food has certainly gone up significantly over the past year. Utilities, rent, all of those things are combining at the same time that the federal government is taking serious steps back from our nation's safety nets. And so you don't have wages keeping up. with that rising cost of living, and you don't have the federal supports that have been put into place to help people stay afloat. What has this... meant for your food banks in eastern and central North Carolina. Are there lines out the door? Are the shelves full? Is it a different kind of clientele? Paint a picture for us, please. You know, there are over 700 pantries, meal sites, delivery programs like Meals on Wheels across our region that are part of the Food Bank network. And those pantries are seeing between 20 and 60 percent more people today. than they did last year at the same time. So this is a huge increase, just year over year, and that's before we started dealing with these cuts to federal food supplies, funding for food banks to purchase food, and then the direct assistance that's been debated this summer and was cut and is actually at the center of some of this shutdown fight. Families do not have the same level of support that they had previously to purchase groceries at the store.

and our food assistance sites, our emergency relief network is strained beyond anything we can recently remember because of some of those same cuts. So it's really been a perfect storm in the worst possible way. Okay. So we're going to get back to some of the political, I don't know, happenings, for lack of a better word here. But what does this mean for you? Are you turning to private donations? What does it mean functionally for your organization? Yeah, you know. It's really difficult for us to make up for significant government changes, right? Like at our scale, I don't want to get too deeply into numbers, but our food bank alone provides enough meal or the food to provide over 100 million meals each year. Just in central and eastern North Carolina, yeah. And that, even at that scale, we're one of the largest food assistance networks in the country. For every one meal that we provide, Snap, the grocery support program that's at issue right now provides nine. Wow. So just to put that into perspective, right, like for every 10% that you cut, that one federal program, we would have to double in size to make up the difference. So we have an incredible community of generous supporters, tens of thousands of donors, volunteers, advocates that make this emergency food assistance network work. And even at that scale, we cannot make up for the federal government's role in preventing hunger and poverty in our communities. Jason Keniwani is with us here on Due South. We're chatting about food insurance. security across our region. Recently, the U.S. Department of Agriculture decided to end its reporting of food insecurity data. And this brought to an end, an abrupt end, 30 years of compiling information for the public. And I suspect, for organizations like yours, what does the end of this survey mean for your food bank and for North Carolinians in need? Right. I mean, we don't need government data to tell us what's going on in the community. We see it at our front doorstep every single day. And as you pointed out earlier, you know, there are over 600,000 people that are facing food insecurity in our communities, people who need that emergency food assistance just to keep food on the table. And so we're seeing that increase day after day after day. Certainly with the shutdown, we're seeing a sharp spike. But here's where we do need that data. Here's where that data is vital. It is vital for us to know where the depths of the challenges are deepest. It is vital for us to match the limited resources we have with the depth of the challenges in specific communities. We know, for example, that rural communities not only have higher rates of food insecurity, but also have fewer resources available to them. There's fewer pantries. There are fewer grocery stores, fewer meal sites. But knowing exactly... to look to see do we have enough resources to support a given community. We can't do that without that data. And even more important, our elected leaders, especially when resources are limited, when we're having serious budget debates about where are we going to devote our limited dollars as a state.

and as a federal government, if they don't have that data to know what programs are most effective at combating food insecurity, if they don't see the trends of is food insecurity rising or falling in their own districts, they can't make smart decisions with limited money. Right. Informed decisions go out the window. That's presuming they were making informed decisions on the front end, but I won't editorialize. You mentioned budget debates, which is an important umbrella to much of this. We have a state... legislature that has not approved a new comprehensive state budget. You can go to the state if you want, but I think stick with the federal here. We had the so-called big beautiful bill over the summer. And that was a budget debate that, as listeners will remember, resulted in major tax reductions for the wealthy and resulted needing to offset that reductions in Medicaid, reductions in SNAP benefits. So that was already coming down. the pipe, and then we get a government shutdown on October 1st. So let's, I think, maybe start there and talk specifically about this shutdown and what it means for North Carolinians, tens of thousands of government workers who are not being paid right now. And SNAP benefits, of course, could cease to be paid out here in a matter of weeks if this shutdown continues. So... Take that and help us better understand, please. This federal shutdown took a bad situation and made it even worse. That's absolutely true. I mean, we can go back actually to March and April when the federal government canceled. the food purchase program, the local food purchase agreements that we use, that was $30 million in North Carolina alone that schools and food banks used to purchase food from local farmers. So not only did we have $30 million less in food supplies for the rising number of people who are facing food insecurity, but local farms had $30 million in less revenue. So now they're cutting jobs, they're scaling back their operations, and more people are going hungry in rural communities. in March. And then we fast forward to the summer where now not only are we taking away funding and food from the food assistance network, we're also going to slash the funding that people receive to pay for groceries at the grocery store. So that's another hit that's increasing food insecurity. And then layered on top of that, we have the federal shutdown, which in some ways, you know, is something that... We can be on board with in principle in terms of it is not possible for us to slash snap and Medicaid and health care and spike the cost of health care and expect us to not see a corresponding spike in food insecurity. If those cuts are continued and are put into motion, our hunger crisis will spiral out of control in this state. But at the same time, The longer that shutdown drags on, the more federal workers and Department of Defense workers and even military workers at some point won't receive paychecks. And so those folks are also winding up seeking food assistance. So it's just a, again, it's a perfect storm in the worst possible way. All right. Jason Keniwani, Stefani, is here with us for just a couple of more moments on due south. I want to steer this toward a solution-based question.

You're talking about spiraling out of control. I'm going to, I think, just be blunt here. I don't see SNAP benefits being reappropriated by Congress anytime soon. So if we're talking about these, let's widen it. There's the short-term government shutdown. We think that's going to end at some point. But then beyond that, how do you make up for the cuts? and the reductions that you all have seen. Must it come from lay North Carolinians? Is this where corporate North Carolina needs to step up? How is how is the need going to be met? I think that that's the million dollar question, or in our case, a multimillion dollar question. And this is where state leaders need to step up in a serious way. We need to pass a budget in North Carolina that invests in these programs. You know, the state is going to have to step up and provide some additional resources to pay for SNAP grocery support and likely Medicaid health care coverage as well if we don't want to see that poverty number spike signal. The same thing is true with our supporter community. You know, we're blessed with incredible supporters, individuals, organizations, corporations, faith-based organizations. You know, now is the time, if you're able, now is the time to step up and get involved. And that's true whether you're able to contribute financially or you're able to volunteer at your local pantry or making your voice heard. I mean, our elected leaders at the state and federal level. absolutely need to hear from us that this crisis cannot be allowed to continue and we need to change course. So there are things that we can do at the state and local level to mitigate some of these cuts. I don't know if we'll be able to fully reverse course here, but we can by working together, we can make a huge difference. And we demonstrated exactly that impact during the pandemic. It was full court press at all levels of government, the private sector, the nonprofit sector, communities coming together. And in that process, we cut child poverty in half. So we know what works and we just need to do it again. Jason Kennawati Stefani is vice president of the Food Bank of Central and Eastern North Carolina. Jason, thanks for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. More due south in a moment. This is WUNC.

You're listening to Do South on WUNC. I'm Jeff Tabiri. The estimated damage caused by Haleen in Western North Carolina is astronomical, nearly $60 billion. Tens of thousands of buildings, roads, bridges, water systems damaged or destroyed. Yet 13 months after the initial destruction, only a small portion of the necessary funds have been even appropriated and less has been distributed. We're going to spend some time now narrowing in the focus and talk about the front end of all this, which is cleanup, the removal of debris. There was an incredible amount of rubble in the wake of the storm, and it needed to be removed. So local municipalities did what they needed to with a pledge from FEMA that they would be reimbursed. But counties and cities across the region have not yet been made whole. Brady Dennis is national environmental reporter at The Washington Post. He joins us now to help sort through this figurative mess. Brady, welcome to do South. Thanks so much for having me. All right. Let's start with a broad brush stroke, please. How much roughly did Western North Carolina municipalities spend on debris cleanup and how much has been reimbursed as of now? I can give you a ballpark. I hesitate to say exact numbers because it's an ever-changing figure, both on what the counties and municipalities are spending on this massive cleanup and also what's coming back, according to data from the federal government. And I think it's safe to say that there's still hundreds of millions of dollars that... local governments in the western part of the state are still waiting to get paid back for. And some of these are quite small governments, quite small counties. And so, you know, $10 or $20 or $30 million can equal their budget for a year. And so they're really facing a bind right now and with no end in sight because so much of this reimbursement just is not happening at the moment. And as our listeners know, this is a giant area. It is hard to talk about Haleen recovery in broad brushstrokes because what is going on in McDowell or Yancey or Buncom can vary greatly from areas 45 to 60 minutes down the road. So it is hard to, I guess, go broad here. But let's go specific. And let's talk about Yancey County, at least for a moment or three. Yancey sits northeast of Bunkum and northeast of Asheville, of course. Its population in Yancey County is about 19,000 so small. For your recent piece, you spoke with Lynn Austin, the county manager. What did you glean from Lynn Austin? Yeah, that's right. Yancey is kind of a perfect encapsulation of what so many... places are up against right now in western North Carolina. And Lynn, who's the manager in Yancey County, was telling us that that county has racked up about $37 million in bills for cleaning up debris. There's other things, by the way, that counties are spending money on, but we kind of focused on debris because everybody sort of understands that that's a huge part of the cleanup. It's something that you can...

very visibly see when it hasn't happened. But anyway, Yancey County has spent about 37 billion, excuse me, 37 million so far on cleaning up debris. And as it happens, you know, Yancey's county budget for the entire year is about the same amount, about 37 million. So that begins to give you a sense of like, what a big expense it is for one county of 20,000 people to undertake this kind of work and what it eventually could mean to them if that doesn't get reimbursed in a timely way. So it's one place where this is happening. It's far from the only one. But that's one example where what the county has spent on debris cleanup is what it would normally spend on everything in its government over the course of a year. All right, $37 million on debris removal when the budget is $37 million. On a micro level here, right, you set aside $3,000 a month to pay for your mortgage, your food, your various expenses, and then you have an emergency pop up, and there's $3,000 that you need to put toward this emergency. We'll call it a broken car. What the heck are you going to do to pay your mortgage and your various expenses and make sure you eat? So let's go micro to macro. $37 million was spent on debris cleanup. Does Yancey County have an emergency fund? Did they have reserves? Are they now having to make cuts in other areas as they wait on this reimbursement? Like, what's functionally happening? Yeah, so without getting too specific in Yancey, I don't know how exactly they're doing it in that county. But in general, I know that counties have tapped into, you know, rainy day funds, emergency funds, you know, moved money around from different sources, leaned on the state of North Carolina to provide some of this funding until it can get reimbursed. There's a mix of things that counties are doing. I think it's important. for the listeners to understand that North Carolina is somewhat unique and that unlike the federal government, the counties cannot run a deficit. They have to balance their budgets by the middle of each year. And so eventually, the county cannot be in the red when it comes time to set a budget for the next year. So that, at this moment in time, I think, is what a lot of these places are wrestling with, is how do we get out from under? these huge amounts of money that we have spent and balance our budgets, which we have to do by law. And if you can't do that, then you start to run into some real problems as far as not being able to fund, you know, other things that keep accounting running. And also you risk, you know, without getting two in the weeds, your credit rating and your ability to borrow money in the future. And I know that a lot of officials in some of these municipalities are really concerned about that right now. Brady Dennis of the Washington Post is with us here talking about some recent reporting from Western North Carolina on cleanup following Haleen, the massive costs and the costs thus incurred by local governments who have not yet, or which have not yet been, reimbursed by FEMA. You note the state is just, I think, yes, like some municipalities are, I believe it's in the Constitution, they've got to have balanced budgets, maybe it's a state law, and then there's also there have been appropriations, of course, from.

the General Assembly relief funds, right, to Western municipalities. But while some of that has flowed, the state, as just a reminder to our listener, doesn't have a comprehensive new state budget. So you mentioned Yancey County. Is Yancey an outlier as we think about, you know, the two dozen counties or so that were impacted by Helene? I don't think so. I mean, I don't know that we, you know, got the numbers from every single county in the region, but I would say it's not an outlier, and it's not even the most extreme example on this. There was a hearing in the General Assembly. In September, in which a couple of local officials came, and one from Avery County said that at that time, you know, Avery County had put out $53 million for debris cleanup, and that, by the way, they weren't actually finished. That county's budget is only $42 million, so that's another example where so much has been spent. And you hear this in place after place, you know, and the numbers vary, but the sort of the gist of what they're up against. is pretty similar. So I don't think ANSI is an outlier. I think many counties are really trying to figure out in this moment how do you pay for this, obviously, and also how do you keep the normal course of things running, you know, whatever, you know, streets and trash cleanup and everything else the counties are responsible for. Okay. So we've established there is, you know, a costly issue here. This is a state that has plenty of alliances with the president and the relatively new Republican administration. FEMA had stated, unless I've got it wrong, that there will be a reimbursement for these cleanup costs. Why? And yeah, it's bureaucracy. And sometimes these things move slowly. But why hasn't this money flowed from FEMA? A really good question, and I wish I had the answer, quite frankly. You know, I think it is, we should be fair in saying that, you know, recovery from any kind of disaster like this, especially as major as Helene was, it takes years. It takes years to clean up. It takes years to rebuild. And that sort of navigating the FEMA federal bureaucracy to get the funding for these kinds of things is always sort of an arduous undertaking. It takes time. But I do think that what we were hearing is that there have been new sort of layers of bureaucracy and red tape that the Trump administration put into place, kind of in the name of eliminating fraud and waste, but that those measures have really... slow things down beyond what's normal. That includes the Homeland Security Secretary, the Kristi Noem, has to sign off on any expenditure over $100,000. So you can imagine when you're talking such large numbers for cleanup, there's a lot of expenses that exceed that. And then there's also

I don't think it's helping, as you said. Obviously, when the government is shut down, a lot of things grind to a halt. Certainly, when we went to FEMA to ask about these delays. Part of the response we got back was the administration blaming Democrats for shutting down the government and saying that causes delays. But again, these are these with this issue of reimbursements, it comes from a pot of money that Congress has already appropriated, you know, the money that would be used. to pay back a lot of this funding for things like debris removal. So as far as I understand it, that money exists and it can be dispersed. But, you know, these delays... have been persistent throughout the past, you know, year, certainly, certainly this year. And, you know, they're not unique to North Carolina. You know, there's other places struggling with this kind of disaster aid backlog, you know, Texas, which had terrible floods this summer, you know, L.A. with the fires. And a lot of smaller events, too. I'm thinking of... Arkansas and other places that have seen really extreme weather. So I think this is a theme that kind of goes beyond North Carolina in a way and to other types of natural disasters and does seem to be something something sort of systemic. You note in your piece that FEMA has actually allocated more. Following Haleen and for Haleen reimbursement of debris cleanup, FEMA has allocated more to neighboring states despite far less damage and far less debris than in North Carolina. I have a sense you're going to go, I don't know this one either. And that's quite all right. It's understandable. It doesn't quite make sense. Is there any rhyme or reason as to why FEMA has allocated more to Georgia or Florida than it has North Carolina? I don't know. And if you learn that, I would love to know. And we're going to keep trying to answer that question. I should say that there are different, without going to in the weeds, again, there are different pots of money that come from FEMA and from other parts of the federal government, like the housing and urban development department, you know, the Department of Agriculture. All these agencies have. types of disaster relief. And so what eventually flows to North Carolina may be a lot more than those other states. A lot of the money for rebuilding over time tends to come from block grants from HUD, for instance. But putting that aside, when it comes to this public assistance money that, as you said, goes to debris cleanup and stuff.

You know, by the public data that's out there, the agency's obligated five times the amount to Georgia that North Carolina has received. I don't know why that is. We did ask the agency that, and they did not, you know, respond to our question on that specifically. There may be a good explanation for that. It's something we're going to keep trying to figure out why. And again, it's something that certainly can change over time as all the money does get dispersed. Brady Dennis of The Washington Post here with us for a couple of more moments on due south. A question that I failed to ask you earlier and is now kind of itching at me is what is, and I've made two trips to Western North Carolina here in the last month. I did not notice any substantial or significant amount of debris. There's certainly, I saw some road and bridge projects still going on, but in the name of debris, I know there's a lot of recovery still on the horizon, but in the name of debris. Is the debris gone, by and large, or what debris is going to be moved or can be removed? I think it's a question of, you know, where you are, as you mentioned at the top. It's such a large region. And anyone who's spent any time in Western North Carolina since Helene, you know, it's just astounding sort of the path that that storm cut through the western part of the state and just how vast the area is that that was affected by it. by this in so many ways through you know wind damage and floods and landslides and so I think it's a hard question to answer is all the debris gone I mean the short answer is no but the longer answer is there's been an amazing amount that is cleared away there's still a lot you know that maybe you don't see from the road that ended up in waterways or, you know, washed down to other areas further downstream. Obviously, the right of ways, the roads, the bridges, that kind of thing is where all this got cleared from first. But I know that every day there's teams of folks out in various tributaries still picking up trash and debris and other things from the storm. So that's going to go on for months, I would assume. It's probably just less visible than the really... sort of startling amount that we saw right after the storm. Yeah. I'm going to give you just 30 or 45 seconds for this last one, Brady, which is what are you looking for or what are the dominoes of significance that you're waiting to see if they fall? Obviously, money starting to flow is a big one. But beyond that, what else are you tracking as it pertains to this story?

I think we're in a moment right now more than a year after the storm where, you know, so much of life, you know, appears more normal in western North Carolina. You know, the roads are open, the stores are open. In some ways, in some ways that's true. But we are in a moment where it's really unclear, at least to me. how much the federal government is really going to step up and help the state do the hardest part of rebuilding, which is the kind that takes many months and years, you know, reconstructing homes that were completely washed away, or buying out or elevating homes, you know, which is also done through the federal government. And despite many applications, none of that has been approved yet. So I think... Both my home curiosity, but what I hear from people who are still involved in the recovery, people who are still being affected by it, people in the state government, you know, is like this uncertainty of how much help will come and win. Brady Dennis is a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter at The Washington Post. His beat is The Environment and Climate. Brady, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much. This is Duce South. Standby. We'll be back on listener-supported WUNC. I'm Leonita Inge, and this is Due South on WUNC. Do you have your Halloween costume picked out yet? Are you one of those procrastinators who runs to the store on October 31st only to find the pickings are less than ideal? Or maybe a new costume is simply not in the budget this year? Have no fear. I'm talking today with two people who can help spark your creativity to make or repurpose your Halloween costume. Evie Dalman is a student at North Carolina State University and an NCSU Sustainability Steward. Last week, the Sustainability Stewards hosted Spooky Stitches. It's a yearly event for students to use donated clothing and scrap fabric to make sustainable Halloween costumes. And speaking of scraps, of course, we wanted to invite Heather Ann into this conversation. Heather Ann is the interim executive director at the scrap exchange in Durham. Heather Ann and Evie, welcome to DoSouth. Thanks so much for having us. Well, Evie, I need you to paint a picture for me. Describe NC State's Spooky Stitches event. It sounds really cool. Something that people shouldn't want to miss out on, really. It started last year, and we just kind of got a campus thrift store, and they sell everything for a dollar, and they had kind of emerged out of the sustainability steward, so we have this large vat of clothing, and a lot of it...

non-sellable really, just because of the style or any type of donation. So my team and I were just really excited to repurpose that and get inspired by DIY traditions. I think I've grown up with that a lot, you know, just throwing something together. And I've been sewing since I was young and so have a lot of other members on the team. So we just wanted to give that opportunity for people to embellish or totally create from nothing a costume to... Embrace individuality and creativity and obviously sustainability. This sounds like really, I mean, a lot of fun. What kinds of materials, I guess, did the sustainability stewards provide or collect? You know, what are some of the favorite materials? I mean, nothing's out of style in a thrift store. I mean, it's honestly better that way. If it's a few years, decades old, I think reenlivening it with a modern twist. You could definitely even go like a Romeo and Juliet route if you found like an old curtain or drape or something. So it's really inspiring. We have a lot of glitz and glam stuff. So kind of like fabric that's embroidered with kind of tinsel and stuff like that. That's always really fun for people. A girl just made her Elphaba cape at our last event this year. And it's been really cool to kind of... give an opportunity for people to sew regardless a girl went upstairs and grabbed her graduation dress and we hemmed it so it really varies but we are there for people to be inspired by like i said glitz and glam or just kind of like old orangy material and we obviously have fabric glue as well in case people are like not really familiar of how to sew, and we also brought a sewing machine this year, too. Oh, yummy. You know, I've been trying to keep up with the most sawed after Halloween looks, you know, this year for 2025. And the characters from that Netflix animated series, K-pop Demon Hunters, that's, it keeps coming up. It's like, that's the number one. costume that everybody wants to have out here. It's been hard keeping purple wigs, for example, in stock. It stores everywhere. But, Evie, do you find students at NC State come to events like, say, spooky stitches with a particular costume in mind? Or do they just show up and let their creativity, like, take them to other places? I mean, are there going to be some K-pop stars there? I hope. And I wish we had wigs, but that's kind of a harder get. But it's kind of half and half. A lot of people come, like I said, with, like, they have their costume. There's one article. They're not going to, like, order it from Amazon just because there's a lot more more you can do that makes it more fun and feel more lively. Like I said, if you make it yourself. But some people come and they're just there. And we brainstorm together. We pull fabrics and we're kind of just like showing each other, like, this could be this, this could be that. I found some fur, like kind of white fur. What are you going to wear? What are you making for yourself? Well, so I ended up making these kind of like fur ears because I was going to be a care bear, but then they evolved to kind of be the maiden from Robin Hood. And then I'm going to incorporate kind of paper materials, and I'm going to be...

The scene from Alice in Wonderland when she's in a house, so I'm taking a cardboard box and putting it on my body and painting it. Be a house? Yeah, I'm going to be a girl in a house. Oh, my goodness. Heather, the scrap exchange, is the home extraordinaire of all scraps, you know, for those who have not been to your space in the Lakewood Shopping Center in Durham, please paint like a picture of what it looks like when you walk in. It is a full-spectrum rainbow, including all metallics and holographics of bits and bobs and fabrics and crafting materials, all repurposed from folks around North Carolina that have brought their access to us so that we can give it back to you. I know. What kinds of crafts and supplies and scraps are people looking for around Halloween time? I think cardboard is a big one. Really? A lot of people have ideas, like you were saying, like a cardboard box or a big sort of like structure that's going to be a part of it. So that's a hot ticket item. Fabric is great. And... I think just like the basic materials to like a lot of thread and ribbon is there. Yeah. Like you were saying not everybody knows how to sew. So a lot of the like materials that you can sort of sew something or keep something together for just one night. Safety pins. Those are really good. Yeah. You can do a lot with a stapler even. Not to mention all that glue. Yeah. So do you think that you get a lot of new customers this time of year, or is it people who know what's there? They know where to find their materials for costumes. Yeah, I think it's both and, and there's even like a weird third option there where people that don't come to us throughout the year, but Halloween, they like know that they can come here and find us. So yeah, it's a mix of both. All of our regulars are still around. Honestly, a lot of them have been working on their Halloween costumes since like... But all year? Yeah. But then we get to see a lot of, especially our young folks. That's really fun. We get to see a lot of the kids in trying to kind of find the last little, like, detailed piece to really tie their costume together. That's exciting. I wonder, you know, when you talk to people, I walk up to them, looking at all the good stuff there, collecting. Are they talking about money? Like trying to save money or to be more sustainable or just more creative, you think? All of the above. I mean, I think creativity seems to be the driving force for the folks that I engage with. I know that the money piece helps. It doesn't hurt the situation. But I also think people really care and have learned a lot in the last few years about how harmful some of the like single use items that are often used during this time of year can be to the environment. So I think people are trying to steer away from that as well.

You know, I have to ask for myself almost, do you all recycle clothing and scraps as well, you know, just so they won't go into a landfill, for example? Yeah, so we have commodities programs where any excess that we're not selling on the floor for whatever reason goes to a commodities program. And I believe right now the company that we work with mills down the fabric and uses it for insulation for housing. Heather Ann of the Scrap Exchange is with me, and Evie Dalman is a sustainability steward at NC State. We're talking about making your own Halloween costume. You know, I've tried to do that in the past for children trying to make them happy. It's so important. You know, Evie, what drew you to become a sustainability steward in the first place? Is it like a popular group on campus? Is it growing? I think for me it started. I went to a Waldorf school, and then when I moved to North Carolina, my mom signed us up for, like, outdoor learning. So every day after school, I was kind of in the woods. And that's kind of a through line between the stewards, largely is this valuing of that natural resource, whether we're in an urbanized space and creating rooftop gardens, creating solar spano, like, faces. But yeah, so there's like three teams, and each one is kind of focused on a different area. And I think that helps diversify it across campus. So I'm unsure about a popularity contest, but we cover a lot of bases. We've got a lot of engineers. I'm in visual arts, a lot of political science. So you can really step in from anywhere. And I think it just really helps broaden it across campus to make solutions within every discipline and area. When I think about spooky stitches, for example, I wonder what's the response from students to like that kind of offering on campus. You know, you gave it a cool name. You're tricking them to be sustainable in some ways. So I feel like when you're living in a dorm, you know, our small apartment, you're just 18, maybe 19 years old. You don't always have access to the proper sewing and supplies and things. So that's why I guess I'm wondering, do you think you're reaching as many people as you want to reach? I think we could always reach more, but I think that we're really happy with who we're reaching. For example, this year, I mean, previously it was our kind of pilot round, and then this year we collaborated with... Wise, which is the Learning Village, and that's about women in STEM-based educations. So we wanted to kind of bridge this craft idea and creativity and sustainability with the sciences, which can sometimes be like siloed from that discipline. So we wanted to kind of engage them with this like hands-on technical craft. There's like a textile school there, so a lot of people there are already knowledgeable in this. So it's more so about kind of bridging it into these areas that might not even care or think about it. But then kind of like you're saying, secretly sneak it in. And honestly, you know, in a large scale, it doesn't even have to be sustainability based. It's also about like bringing people together. I think a beautiful tradition is people around a table sewing together, talking about what they're making and what it means to them.

So I have to ask Evie, Heather. I mean, what's the most popular costume you think? I mean, I talked about the K-pop show, but I just wonder what's out there this year? What are you seeing? I hear people talking about, oh, I'm going to be this this year. I don't know that I can pull a specific example, but the vibe of our customers is generally costumes that involve a story. So it's not something that's maybe immediately recognizable just by looking at the person. It's something that they have to like tell the story. An example, actually, my youngest son is going to go as a... human body part peddler. Oh, what? You heard me. So he's got a cape and he opens it up and it's got all these different human body parts that you can get. And that's not from a book or a story. It's just something he's come up with. And I feel like a lot of our customers have that same vibe of like, let me come up with my own character and just lean into the story of it. Yeah, it's like once a year you can like truly be imaginative. And like you're saying, some people take the whole year to make it. Yeah. It's like one day slash week slash weekend that you can really just be like, this is who I am secretly or like want to explore. Well, I'm trying to figure out what's the big story this year. Well, some people had talked about with our group, they're being members from different bands. And it actually related well to something that they do in Raleigh called The Great Coverup. And it's where bands cover past bands. And so that's been really cool to see them integrate like pop culture and iconography of different artists into their costumes. That's kind of been a larger trend I've saw. Hunting Wives. Oh, that sounds really good. I mean, I could be one. You just need the orange sunglasses. I know. Well, Heather, does the scrap exchange have any creative reuse sessions or classes around Halloween? I know you probably have them year round, but I just do. Yeah, lots of fun ones. One of the favorite ones that we have coming up is the creepy doll workshop where you, we take all the, like, dolls that have sort of. The ones that my sister tore up. Correct. Yeah, the weird Barbies. People's left over weird Barbies. Oh. And we put them in the middle of the room. And you can basically disassemble them, reassemble them, put them back together, give them extra arms and extra eyeballs. And it's really fun. It's really fun. Our whole staff does it. I can see Evie light up. I saw Evie light up with that one. So, I mean, when I think about, we're talking about Halloween now. And you have the. You know, the spooky stitches. But I'm thinking of year-round. You know, is this your favorite holiday, Heather? It is. It is. I'm a witch at heart, so it's my favorite time of year.

Yeah, but scrap has all sorts of, in terms of like, community sewing circle where you can come in like your event and just bring anything that you need to alter or fix. So maybe you've got a non-Hallowing costume party that you're going to and you can work on those. I don't think you told us what you're going to wear. I don't know. I think I usually sort of phone it in and either go as Wednesday Adams or a witch just because I have a lot of black and it makes it easy. You know, the last time you were here, we were talking about a trash fashion show. The trash and show. Yes. Look at Evie. Yeah. And so I wonder if any of those same concepts would be used around the Halloween costumes, probably. Absolutely. Yeah. I think. You know, when we were talking about saving money and reusing materials, I think there are lots of ways to make something appear to be a large muscle on a body, for example, or metal armor, but it's actually made out of pop tabs or it's actually made out of old plastic containers. So I think a lot of those creative twists on everyday reuse materials will definitely show up. Yeah. I feel like with Scrap Exchange, like one thing that makes it so wonderful is like the auditing of it. And like when it's compartmentalized, it makes it so much easier to envision it as its own material. Like you're saying like a Pop Tab, like separate from its, you know, production. style it's able it's like kind of in a blank canvas you can see the possibility of it yes shout out to our team of 48 people that do that work every day that's exciting i wonder eve if you think if you're already thinking about um spooky stitches for next year you're making plans well Actually, no, not yet. But I think that we'd like to keep elaborating on this idea of collaborating with other groups that might want to integrate this craft into their otherwise separate disciplines. So, you know, for some reason, the first one that came to head is, like, Philosophy Club. There might be something interesting there about actualizing these ideas or, like, you know, reinvigorating. old stereotypes associated with disciplines. But we also, we've done some upcycling workshops, some mending workshops, natural dye workshops. So throughout the year, regardless of theme, we're trying to equip people with these skills. But Halloween is just the perfect. chance to bring it all together. It definitely is. I've been speaking with Heather Ann of the Scrap Exchange and Evie Dalman, a student, and Sustainability Stewart at NC State. Thank you both for joining us, and I hope you both have a happy Halloween. Thank you. You too. Don't eat too much candy. And if you have a favorite homemade or repurposed Halloween costume, tell us about it. Write us an email or send a voice memo attached to an email. The address is do.

South at WUNC.org. We might include your message on the air on Halloween. And also, you know, one of our producers' kids was the Grim Reaper last year. Guess what? This year, they're trading in their plastic, you know, sigh for a rake. And they're sewing some ornamental leaves on the cloak, and they'll be the grim raker. Gorgeous. Oh, that is so cool. So tell us about yours. DoSouth at WUNC.org. I'm Leonita Inge. You've been listening to DoSouth on WUNC. Do you know what mine is that that just reminded me of? I wanted to do the glam reaper and do like David Bowie as a grim reaper. And I couldn't get it together last year, so maybe I'll pull it off this year. Each story you hear on Planet Money starts with a question. What happens if we refund tariffs? Why are groceries so expensive? At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious because the forces shaping our world can be hard to see. Follow NPR's Planet Money wherever you get your podcast and start seeing how the economy really works.