NC News Roundup: Sen. Thom Tillis' tirade; Berger and Page race far from over; NC primary analysis

This is due south on WUNC News. I'm Jeff Tiberi. Kristi Noem, the Department of Homeland Security, was fired Thursday days after U.S. Senator Thom Tillis unloaded on her. We expect exceptional leadership. And you've demonstrated anything but that in the time that I've seen you responding to the emergency in North Carolina and across the southeast and acknowledging when mistakes are made. We'll discuss the fallout ahead on our Friday News Roundup. Also this hour, primary results are in from Appalachia down to the Atlantic. And, oh, yeah, one big race that's kind of far from over. We're going to continue to press this until... All legal votes have been counted, and we know what the result is. Burger, Page, and much more on the week that was here on Dues South. First, the news.

of WNC News in Chapel Hill. It's due south. Welcome to the North Carolina Friday News Roundup. I'm Jeff Tiberi ahead this hour. Primary results, a cabinet firing, and a rivalry renews. There's no conflict in this world where residents of North Carolina are not at the tip of the sphere, whether it's Camp Lejeune or Marines or 4-5 or armed. Page leads by two votes after Tuesday's Election Day ballots were tallied. But there are several steps between now and the outcome becoming finalized. Fushi won a majority in Orange and Chatham counties, but she trailed a law in Durham and southwestern Wake County. Governor Roy Cooper is going to be the Democratic nominee. He will face off against former Republican National Committee chair Michael Whatley, who is backed by President Trump. And what we've seen is a disaster. Under your leadership, Ms. Kristi Noem, a disaster. President Trump has fired his Homeland Security Secretary. Kristi Noem became one of the public faces of the administration's agenda of mass deportation.

It's been a week, as they say. With us for the hour, Adam Wagner, reporter, editor covering state politics for the North Carolina newsroom, a collaborative between public radio stations here on the old North State. Brian Anderson, statewide politics reporter for the assembly, also curator, of the Anderson Alerts newsletter, and Don Vaughn, Capital Bureau chief host of the Under the Dome podcast at the News and Observer. Nice to see y'all. Hello. What a slow week. Yeah, what a slow week. Nice. Later this hour, Eric Bazail Amiel, National Security Reporter at Politico stops by to detail. how Thom Tillis factored into the ouster of Kristi Noem. Let us begin with the Tuesday primary, and we'll begin with the race that is not over, the one from Rockingham County, the most powerful man in state politics, Republican Senate leader Phil Berger, local sheriff Sam Page. Fortunately or unfortunately, listeners have been hearing us talk about this one for weeks. You're going to hear us talk about it for more weeks because the separation between these two three days after the primary is to Don Vaughn. Let's start with where does this go from here? And let me just say, Sam Page Leedsville Burger by two. Yes. So I was in Reedsville at Berger's event. My colleague Nathan Susan Collins, who I think people have heard on the show before, was at Sheriff Page's event in Stokesdale. That two votes when all precincts were in was enough for Page to declare victory. That was around maybe between 9, 10. Meanwhile, Berger came out and talked to media, didn't take any questions, but talked initially as supporters and said, you know, our town, our ordinance in Reedsville means we have to leave this event space, this building at 10, and all, everything wasn't in yet. So he was saying it's too close to call. Throughout the night, you could hear the sound in the room of excitement versus, oh, no, quiet as returns came in because Paige, I mean, he trounced Berger in Rockingham County, two to one. But Guilford County is where most of Berger's support was. And when that came in, that kept flipping where Paige was up, Burger was up. But then people started to leave. And, you know, Burger's working the room a little bit. And I thought, well. Is this, you know, if Berger loses, is this the last time we're seeing him on election night and everything? So they're closing down this room in the event and people leave. Almost everybody had left ended up going outside and the local TV stations were outside getting, because they've got their 11 o'clock, you know, standups and everything. And there's a building right across the pathway where the inner core of Berger staff and supporters and Berger himself were. And we're seeing the precincts are in while like those of us that were there were standing outside. And it's the two votes. We're like, well, Berger's got to come back out and talk to us. And eventually he did. And while Paige had already said like, oh, I won, even though by two, you know, because he's excited and he did by two with, you know, there's still ballots that haven't, you know, finished it provisional military overseas and all of that. But. But Berger said, you know, we're essentially in a tie. And I asked him, I said, are you going to call for a recount? And he said, well, once we have all these provisional ballots and everything, we'll see if I, you know, meaning Berger saying it needs to be the one that calls for once. And I got away to go. My favorite part of that Don Vaughn conversation story was just when she asked, you know.

How are you feeling? He's like, I'm exhausted. I'm tired. It's like, that's everybody. I don't know if you saw that TV clip. I did not ask him how I was feeling. I asked him about the, that was a TV reporter. I asked him about the recount. And I asked him about his response to Rockham and Guilford, because Rockingham is his home county. And he basically said, yeah, I knew that was going to happen. We knew we'd have the Guilford support. But that other reporter's question about the feeling, I thought, you know, and he's like, well, I'm tired. I've been up all day. And we're tired, too, because this is like all. Almost midnight. And, you know, everyone had a long day. Let me forecast for listeners. Y'all are going to be tired of this race by the time we get an answer as to who the winner is, which might be April. Could very well be May. I want to lift something up that Don Vaughn just said to underscore it for listeners, which is Sam Page beat Phil Berger, 67 to 33 percent in Rockingham County, in the home county, a two to one margin. They're virtually tied by virtue of Burger winning roughly two to one in northern Guilford County. I just want to stress that sheriffs are the most popular local candidates anywhere they are. Let's hear from the sheriff popular and perhaps, perhaps, but we do not know yet, the next senator from Rockingham and Guilford. This is Sam Page. Tonight, tonight, we showed the opposition that you can put $10 to $12 million in a campaign account. Those dark ads and all that negative stuff. But you know what? It worked against you. And we won this because of relationships, relationships with our citizens. We don't want to work for it. I'm coming to you in a moment, Brian. Let me just editorialize here briefly. $10 to $12 million for a legislative race that pays less than $14,000 for the seat. If you get it, it pays less than $14,000 a year. Stakes are extremely high. They're separated by two, roughly or specifically, if you know, how many ballots are still outstanding. Yes. So right now, there are 189 possible votes. from provisional ballots in Senate District 26. Now, it's worth noting that can be Republican primary or Democratic primary. Some of them might not be applicable. Exactly. And based on the past history, around 40% of those provisional ballots are likely to count. So 189 and most of them are likely to not count. If you look at the breakdown of it, 137 of those are in Rockingham County. That's pretty good news for Sam Page. That's where he did best. The remaining 52 are in Guilford County in Senate District 26 in Guilford County. So not good news for Phil Berger. Now, what happens next is we're going to see some of these updated numbers, hopefully today around 5 p.m. when these counties have to report those numbers out. And then next Thursday is the deadline. for military and overseas mail-in ballots, we might get a dozen, we might get a lot less. It's a very small number that we'll see. So that's going to pale in comparison to the 189. Exactly. The bulk of what's outstanding is going to be provisional? Yes. We also got a two-vote margin. Very small numbers matter here. Yes. And then after next Thursday, it's worth noting that on Friday, the counties, exactly a week from now, the counties are going to do their canvassing. They're going to make sure that the counts.

are accurate, the machines tabulated things correctly. They're going to go through that process. There might be a couple of votes that shift because of that. That's not unusual to see a little bit of margin. And then on March 17th, that's going to be the deadline for the second place finisher, whoever that might be, to request a recount. That's going to trigger endless litigation and... I'm getting some Jefferson Griffin, Allison Riggs, 2.0 PTSD here. We've been here before. As a civics reminder, if a non-statewide election is within 1%, the person who finishes second can request a recount. What if, Brian Anderson, what if? Because here we are, with the most powerful person in North Carolina politics being behind by two votes. What if they're even after all this, then what? If they're exactly tied. under a 1915 state law, we have the beauty of a do-over election where you get to do this all over again. There's no recounts. We just have to do this all over again. So it is worth noting that I have reported on, you know, some of the campaign finance numbers. It's going to be months and months and months. I think July 10th until we see new campaign fundraising reports. Oh, wow. And we can see some legal expense funds. That could be just the beginning of more money to come into this race. So $10 million is what I reported on so far. It can be a lot more very quickly. Let me widen the lens. Please, either both of you want to remind us why this is so important. And I will just merely remind folks, we don't have a state budget. We've got spats going on at the legislature. Phil Berger has had the most leverage of anybody in that building for 15 years. And right now. We functionally don't know what his leverage is. And state government is going to – it's already kind of ground to a halt. It's going to be frozen here. Well, he – I actually – like I'll have a story coming soon, but that's not – clearly election-related. So it's like not – wasn't on, you know, my front burner where I talked to Berger, you know, ahead of the election and asked about the budget and taxes and all of that. So I don't know if the primary is going to have any impact on that other than – Obviously, the winner-lose factor. But it's important for people understand that Berger really is essentially the most powerful politician in the state. Democratic Governor Josh Stein is more of the face of the state. But he's a freshman governor. You know, there can only have two terms in a row anyway. And, of course, he was attorney general before. But as far as the... leveraging power. Berger has been in control so long. And House Speaker Dustin Hall, the positions are equal, the head of the House, the head of the Senate. But Berger has just been there longer. He's a mass more power, you know, Speaker Moore, you know, left and is in Congress now. And Berger's legacy is all over the place. It's everywhere. And I think that's a factor too. It's not just him. But what was most interesting to me being in. in his district and then seeing him and his supporters on election night as how he's a very different, he's a different person. Oh, it's a different dynamic. Him on the campaign trail versus him in the building. Totally different. It's a coat switch. Quarter zip burger, you know, and khakis and sneakers instead of, you know, suit burger. Oh, sure. It's great to see you. How's the pie last week, ma'am? Well, you know, wearing a baseball hat with his name on it. You know, it's people calling him Phil and it's just, it's very, it's very different. And I was.

If I don't get an answer to these questions, if I don't get an answer that you've had a month to respond to, and the remaining ones, as of today, I'll be informing leadership that I'm putting a hold on any on-block nominations until I get a response. And in two weeks, if I don't get a response, I'm going to deny quorum and markup in as many committees as I can until I get a response. That's Thom Tillis on Tuesday. Eric, unpack that for us as late persons, as listeners. What is he ostensibly threatening to do in that moment? The first one basically means that no nomination, very few nominations would move forward. I mean, beyond some individual judicial nominees, we've actually seen the Senate be forced to do these on-group, you know, these whole group kind of big slates of nominations because there's just disagreements between lawmakers. Like there are some Republicans who don't agree on individual nominees or there are some nominees that are not necessarily clear in committee in the ways that they want with the favorable recommendations they want. So they're just kind of lumping them. at some points together, just for the sake of efficiency. There are so many judges and regulatory bodies that have to go through this. So it makes it significantly harder for John Thune in the Senate, who has very little floor time to as well grant together lots of important funding legislation. The markups were even more policy specific. He sits on four different committees. In addition to the judiciary hearing, the committee where that hearing was taking place, he sits on Veterans Affairs and banking and finance. And right now there is crypto legislation that's moving through the Senate. There's all sorts of legislation that constantly moves forward on reforming the VA. And he was basically saying, like, those bills aren't going to move. Because of the way the Senate is structured, they need a majority, they need quorum in order just to basically operate. But they also only have tight margins in committee. If Thom Tillis were to have joined all Democrats in opposing legislation, that legislation isn't going to move to the floor. And John Thune would have to waste a lot of capital bringing it to the floor. Bad analogy alert, but it's almost akin to throwing a strip of nails down a busy road. You just clog things up, and that's what he was threatening to do here. All right. Remind us, if you would, please, Eric, the ire directed at Kristi Noem from Thom Tillis is not new. How long has this been going on for? And did it kind of peak this week, or was this just par for the recent course? This was definitely the most visible escalation of his frustrations with Kristi Noem. We've seen it since Minneapolis, very publicly him saying that he wanted Kristi Noem to resign or to be removed from office, just based on the way that she had messaged. Thom Tillis and Lisa Murkowski both criticized Noam for rushing to declare that Alex Prattie and Renee Good, the American citizens that were killed by immigration officers in Minneapolis, were quote-unquote domestic terrorists.

before any kind of investigation unfolded. But there were frustrations from the North Carolina delegation for a while. Bud and Thom Tillis, Senator Ted Bud and Thom Tillis had both put hold on nominees out of frustration with how FEMA was dispersing money for Hurricane Helene recovery. And there had just been general frustrations among Republicans privately about Noam's tone, about her style, her very optics-focused approach to immigration enforcement. So once Thom Tillis had Noam in his crosshairs at the judiciary hearing, This was his chance, really, to, like, put pressure on the administration. His chance. And here is another snippet of that. intensity that he invoked on Tuesday. We're beginning to get the American people to think that deporting people is wrong. It's the exact opposite. The way you're going about deporting them is wrong. The fact that you can't admit to a mistake, which looks like under investigation, it's going to prove that Ms. Good and Mr. Petty probably should not have been shot in the face and in the back. Law enforcement needs to learn from that. You don't protect them by not looking after the facts. Not only should the FBI be investigating it, but every single law enforcement agency in that jurisdiction should be invited to it. There has been, and this is me here, this is me talking, an astonishing level of gas lighting that has come out of the Department of Homeland Security and no. I mean, we see video and then we hear things that they don't make sense. They do not line up. So this hearing, Eric, happens on Tuesday. Roll forward for us, if you would, what transpires Thursday. So let me set it up this way. The president fires Kristi Noem. Were you anticipating this or was this just the latest surprise? The funny thing about Noam is that she was always just one bad news cycle away from being removed. But it was just a question of whether the kill shot would ever happen, right? Like when you're at 998 cuts, is 999 or 1,000 actually going to be the fatal one? And that's what it felt like for a lot of it, because Noam had survived a ton of scandals before this. What really changed was when one old scandal was... brought to her by John Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. There was this pro-publica reporting about a no-bid, more than $200 million contract that went to then funnel the money. It was one ad that was shot at Mount Rushmore. It aired on Fox. It featured her very prominently. And it went, much of the money went to some of her political allies in South Dakota. When John Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a Republican from Louisiana, asked her about this, he specifically asked whether Trump knew about the money and whether Trump approved it. Noam said that he had approved it. And that was the killshot. The White House was furious about it. The White House called, the president called Robert F. Kennedy Jr., per Robert F. Kennedy Jr., that same night and asked if he should sub out know him for Markwayne Mullin. And it seemed that through Wednesday, you know, she testified at the House Judiciary hearing. She had a very uneasy.

answer to questions about potentially having an affair with her advisor, Corey Lewandowski. Apparently the president was dissatisfied with that too. And once we got to Thursday morning and the chatter had really been swirling around Mullen, that's when it started to look more likely. But, I mean, once we had gotten to Tuesday, even after the Tuesday hearing, it was very unclear whether that was the kill shot or not, just given Trump's general aversion to firing people and giving in to media scandals around his cabinet officials. Eric Bazail Amel, National Security Reporter at Politico, with us for another moment on the line here on due south. So all this controversy coming from a cabinet that has carried out these... unprecedented, if not largely unconstitutional raids, gobbling up or arresting, I should say, plenty of American citizens here in recent months. So Noam is out. You mentioned Markwayne Mullin, Republican U.S. Senator of Oklahoma. He's in the queue, needs Senate confirmation, but of course could be the interim for quite some time. Before we let you go, Eric, please tell us what could change under a regime of Markwayne Mullin. We shouldn't expect the actual tone and tenor of immigration enforcement to change that much from the recalibration we've already seen. We can expect that it will align a lot with how Tom Homan, the borders are, has been kind of messaging on immigration enforcement. They want more 287 agreements. They want more agreements to take immigration enforcement away from people's homes and streets towards jails and towards detention facilities out of public view, out of kind of these complex situations for officers to diffuse. We should not, however, expect... you know, the culture of fear that has dominated DHS to continue. That certainly will change. Mullen has a very different reputation as a manager from what we've been hearing. He's a lot more collegial with his fellow Republicans. He's not going to have figures like Corey Lewandowski in his orbit. So we can anticipate that there will be changes at the department writ large by how it's managed, maybe even some changes around how FEMA operates, how other agencies operate. But in terms of immigration enforcement, substantively little will change beyond what we've already seen. Maybe the message will be different, but the substance will likely stay very similar to what we've seen. Eric Bezal Amil focuses on the Department of Homeland Security. He is a national security reporter at Politico. Eric, thank you for joining us here on Due South. Always great to be with you guys. Thanks so much. Take care. All right. Let me pose this to y'all because this has been an act of courage from Thom Tillis that we've seen in recent weeks. Helps when you're not running for reelection to be a little bit more bold, doesn't it? I suppose it does. We also heard from Senator Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or we heard about Senator Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from Louisiana. He's not up this year. He's not retiring this year. Does it surprise you all that we haven't? This is, sorry, admittedly a ridiculous question, but does it surprise you that we haven't seen other types of? accountability seeking speeches the way we heard from from Thom Tillis this week well debor ross i mean she's a democrat but she you know she came at um known just the day after Thom Tillis course Thom Tillis is a republican right it's a bit different i i should have prefaced it with republican but i think that Thom Tillis Thom Tillis is focused really on operation charlotte's web shows that it's one of those things where

When it's happening to someone else, maybe it doesn't matter quite as much as some of these senators, but when it's in your backyard, suddenly it really matters. The other thing about Thom Tillis that I thought was striking was he, remember, Thom Tillis loves dogs. I was just going to mention that. He loves dogs. He profoundly, perhaps rightfully, offended by the anecdote in Kristi Noem's book where she shot and killed her 14-year-old puppy and her goat. And he brought this up, and he kept telling her about how this is how. It was an example of how she's incapable of leadership and incapable of instilling character in people she's really. It's a good example. And then when Mullen wins. Tell us tweets out a photo of Mullen with a dog and it's like listing all these things about how he's good for border security and all this. And then he's like at the end. Another big positive. He likes his dog. So a little bit of snarkiness from the senator too. The first thing I thought of when they said it was Markwayne Mullin, Markwayne Mullin, though, is that I think it was a year or two years ago that seen in the Senate with, I believe it was the head of the Teamsters where they almost got in a fight. So go go watch that clip again if you have it. They were chirping. He stood up. You stand your butt up. And then Bernie Sanders is like, you're a United States senator. You know, it was really something. And it started with Mullen, not with the Teamster guy. Eric mentioned this sort of how they're going to message to the public. It's worth on. If you like to watch CNN on some evening, Mullen is one of the Republican senators who has been on TV a lot over the past, what, 14 or so a month. Sure. So he's he's comfortable in sort of non-riding spaces, whereas Kristi Noem was more comfortable. almost exclusively in right-wing spaces. Do South Friday News Roundup here on WUNC News. Just about the bottom of the hour, a little bit past. Let's do our trivia. Going to be a basketball heavy month, folks. I ask for your patience and appreciate it in advance. As I mentioned earlier, we've had 72 ACC men's basketball tournaments. Today's query. How many of those 72 have been played outside of North Carolina? Again, on how many occasions has the ACC tournament? Not taking place in the old north state. Send your correct responses to do south at wunc.org. Plans for a proposed data center in Apex are being next. The developer has withdrawn annexation and rezoning applications following scrutiny and backlash from community members. Opponents have cited strains on natural resources and environmental impacts of creating such a center. At least one town council member says they will propose a one-year moratorium on any data center projects in Apex. This is an interesting news brief, but I wanted to extend it to the legislature to gauge from y'all. where lawmakers, perhaps most importantly, Republican leading lawmakers, are on data centers because this feels like a damn they're going to have to deal with one way or the other. So we have not heard much on data centers specifically yet. I have two notes here. One.

The energy legislation that we've seen over the past couple sessions now has been geared towards this reliability question. And allowing Duke energy to kind of runway to ramp up bringing more power on the grid, Duke has explicitly said that 80% of the demand it sees coming on over the next 10 or so years is from data centers. So data centers are driving energy policy in our state, period. Yeah. The other thing is there are now a handful of these moratoriums across state. There are rumblings of a bunch of more. We have seen this General Assembly step in when they see local governments passing moratoriums and preempt on things before. And I just wonder if we don't get a little bit of that in the short session. I think people aren't going to be happy about having to pay more money because of this. And I think that's gotten to people's radar. People have other concerns about it, too. But if it ends up the cost burden is absorbed by people who already want, you know, their taxes to go down, who, like, you know, Republicans are always trying to appeal to them. Then I feel like they'd, this session is going to be really weird when it starts. But I feel like they have to talk about it, you know, at some point. Remind us when? This session starts late April? April 21st. April 21st. All right. A former state lawmaker accused of committing sex crimes with a minor is facing new charges. Cecil Brockman, Democrat of Guilford County, was recently indicted by a grand jury. According to WFDD, he faces three new counts of statutory sex offense and indecent liberties with a child. Brockman was indicted on two counts of first-degree sexual exploitation of a minor. He is now being held without bond under the newly enacted Irena's Law, which I did not know and I thought was interesting. So there's that story. Let me do one more. He's like. Clear my throat. Can I just pause and say that we need to do a segment on allergies here on due south? Because they're back again. I think that's what's going on for the last several weeks. I think that's what going on with my throat here. Chapel Hill Carborough City School Board is considering closing one or more elementary schools in the face of a budget shortfall. Five schools are being considered for closure by the 2027-28 academic year. According to RAL, the superintendent there is trying to identify as much as $7 million in cuts to balance a budget to present to the county. The school district, like many others, has also faced dropping enrollment in recent years. I also wanted to just pose this to y'all. Does this ring any bells or do you offer any connection points with other school closures in the state or is what's happening here perhaps a standalone? I mean, I'm a Wake County public schools parent and I haven't seen it at that level. It's usually about, like, you know, needing to build schools. Yeah, that was my thought as well. But I saw it this morning. I did think it was interesting. Another one here, a state highway patrol officer was killed in the line of duty early Sunday morning. Steve Perry was responding to a call on Highway 147 in Durham at 2.45 a.m. He was struck by a vehicle driving the wrong way and killed. The driver of that vehicle also died. According to the Highway Patrol, impairment is suspected as a cause of the crash. No other victims. Perry, the patrolman, was a standout football player at Riverside High School before playing at NC Central. Perry was only 30.

years old. That was a sad one. Brian Anderson, I've got a note in here on a much lighter note. And I don't know who Carolyn Easton was, but we're going to do this. And I'm only going to give you a minute or so. But who is Carolyn Easton and why is she of note for our listeners? So if folks remember last week, we ended the show with, you know, what are you looking at in the primaries? And I highlighted this legislative race that pretty much nobody was paying attention to. Caroline Easton, she's a pharmacist, she's a UNC alum. She's a, and I was looking through the campaign finance reports, and she had a pretty decent shot of winning, I thought, and nobody was talking about this. And she unseated Representative Kelly Hastings. So I had a joke in my newsletter. I said I either looked like a genius or like a complete fool. That was the genius part. The complete fool part came when I thought, Shelly Willingham. I didn't have him in my races to watch, and he lost. If folks think I'm a genius or an idiot, feel free to let me know on Twitter. I would personally pick the latter option. We will reserve judgment here on the panel just so as to not put anybody in a bind. But I will acknowledge that that is a good tease for a thread of conversation that will come later in the hour as it pertains to legislative incumbents going down on Tuesday night. It was not just Hastings and Willingham. There were others. We're going to tell you about those in just a few minutes as we roll. on during our Friday News Roundup. A quick one for you. Upcoming episode of D-South is going to focus on tobacco use and youth vaping. We've got a couple of experts and officials lined up for our conversation. We, of course, want to hear from them. They're important. But we would also like to hear from somebody who regularly vapes, preferably someone in their teens or early 20s. Is this you or perhaps somebody you know? Send us a note if you're game to chat about it. DoSouth at WUNC.org. We're hanging out with Brian Anderson, Don Vaughn and Adam Wagner. I'm Jeff Tabir. DoSouth Friday News Roundup on WNC News continues in a moment.

Welcome back to listeners supported WNC News. It's due south. Friday news roundup. Happy birthday, Luke May. Today, a member of the Kobe Storks of the Japan Professional Basketball League. May was a heroic figure nine years ago when he hit a jump shot with three-tenths of a second left to help Carolina defeat Kentucky in the elite eight. May. Then a sophomore had a then career high, 17 points as the Tar Heels advanced to the final four where they then defeated Oregon and Gonzaga to claim. Their seventh and most recent national championship, Luke May, is 29 today. Tomorrow night at Cameron Indoor Stadium, it's the latest installment of the best rivalry in the sport. Dukies and heels, 630, tip-off. Blue Devils, now number one in the country, have won seven straight since that loss, that buzzer-beating-ish loss in Chapel Hill a month ago. They sit at 28 and 2 overall Carolina remains without freshman phenob. Caleb Wilson, it's unclear if he'll be back from a broken hand tomorrow. I know Don Vaughn's pulling for Duke. Is that a game you'll watch Adam Wagner? No. Young kid, baseball guy, just not into it. Not into it. You don't want to watch Duke beat you and see? I will say, so I was at the DMV, the DMV, the Dean Dome last. weekend for Virginia Tech versus UNC. It was competitive for a while. The UNC fans are very nice and friendly. It was a good experience. But no one's talking about Virginia related basketball. That's the important thing. We're not. Jeff. I am if you on sports right now because my beloved Tottenham Hotspur are about to get relegated. So I am just not in a good mood. Is there any sort of North Carolina connection on what you just said? None. None at all. All right. Let me tell listeners. That it's 5433, the Duke Blue Devils women's basketball team is the quarterfinals of the ACC Women's Tournament. They lead Clemson right now in the fourth quarter, 54 to 33. I think we would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that the United States is at war to some degree. This obviously started last Saturday morning attacks on Iran and this proxy. conflict and this regional war has carried on for a week now, no real end in sight. As we try to bring this back home or make connections to North Carolina, of course, there's this major military installation outside of Fayetteville, Fort Bragg. We don't know yet what kind of deployments they're going to be, unless you all have some news to break today. But are there any other... offerings or reactions or scuttle butt from candidates or things that you've noticed as you're driving down the highway, just anything at all. And if not, that's okay. This is something we're going to be, I suspect, talking about for a long time. On the issue of Iran, you know, former governor and now U.S. Senate candidate, Roy Cooper, he kicked off a make-stuff cost-less tour. And he talked about Iran. He talked about gas prices as part of that. and the rising costs as a consequence to that involvement. And people have been seeing it at the pump. I mean, it's over $3 for regular gas for the first time in a long time since I remember. So people are certainly seeing it. I think the question is whether it will be this salient of an issue and continue rising as we get closer to the general election. I mean, it's not just over $3. It's well over $3. The cheap gas station by our house now went from 279 to $3.39 this week.

I think as far as people's lives, I was struck by that, you know, Trump quote and a lot of, you know, national news headlines about how, like, yeah, people are going to die. That's how it happens in wars, you know, more or less. I'm paraphrasing. It was about that, you know, tone, though. So I think that kind of sets the tone for maybe his administration's handling of the war. He's right. That does happen. But obviously there's going to be a lot of worst case scenarios. There have been just will note briefly some, some demonstrations, at least one in Uptown Charlotte that brought out. several dozen folks this week. I think the other thing from the standpoint of the Senate race is I would expect both candidates get questions about where they're at on a war powers resolution. The Senate has kind of largely ceded that authority at the moment and, you know, open you a Senate race. So we'll see where they're at. So many factors that are going to influence this race, the Senate race in Texas. We don't even know the candidates of that one yet. Do South Friday News Roundup, quarter to one here on a Friday. Let's get back to the primary results. We really didn't even acknowledge, I guess, specifically that Roy Cooper carried the day easily on the Democratic side, and Michael Whatley did so easily. On the Republican side, they'll face off now in one of these very expensive U.S. Senate contest that's going to be there, part of the battleground along with Maine and Iowa. I do think, as we proceed here in 2026. And one thing you mentioned before the break was just as far as primary election takeaways, the number of incumbents who lost their seats. We had at least eight, and that's before we know what happens with Berger and Page. Three on the Democratic side, notably Carla Cunningham, who didn't have Stein's support, who had voted on what many saw as as. very anti-immigrant rhetoric in a campaign floor speech, and she lost handily. Nassif Majid who voted to override Governor Stein on a bill got... Defeated and Shelley Willingham as we were talking about and then on the Republican side there were five incumbent legislators and perhaps the most notable one might be Keith Kidwell. It was perhaps the only thing that House Republicans would probably be happy about as far as the results for losing someone if there was someone that They would have wanted to lose its Kidwell. He's a member of the House Freedom Caucus. Hard line. He is known for bucking party leadership, especially on like the shrimp trawling effort. He had tried to get that effort killed and successfully did. He's the one that used the word shrimp gate. But he certainly had allies in the House Republican caucus. And one thing I noticed more about Kidwell this past year. is a lot of his like pushing back on taxes. And he like had a hand in driving or at least the conversation on on tax policy. And of course, you know, he's on finance. And so I mean, we still have all of the short session to go. But.

I feel like that's a pretty huge change at the legislature with Kidwell. I was surprised about Hastings. And I believe like there's a lot of like, you know, infighting between people and Jimmy Dixon came out. But you all had, you know, Colin Campbell had reported about Dixon wanting to get Kidwell out over disagreement over something in the Farm Act, you know. Pesticide lawsuits. And so that, I mean, there's just a lot. There's a variety on the, on the Republican side about how how things have gone with people getting booted. Eight incumbents disposed of on Tuesday. If burger goes down, it would make it nine. Some are, some D's, some from the eastern part of the state, some from the western part of the state. Dare I even ask, is there a through line here? So on the Republican side, not really. That's kind of an all politics or local deal. You know, on the Hastings race, he had one point said he was going to retire, then decides to come back, then kind of it. Now, he put out an X message Tuesday night saying, my family and I are relieved at the result of this race. I'm sorry. Who said that? Hastings. That was relieved. And there's also incumbents that came out of it fine. Like Jake Johnson won his primary and he was being challenged by, you know, a former house member. So I think if there is a through line to be had that we saw, it's frustration with the status quo. What regardless of how people define that. So like Mark Plus, he lost and he is in the western part of the state. And he took a vote on a bill that had very little to do with Helene Relief in 2024. He initially voted against it and then supported an override. And that might be something people remembered. And on the Democratic side, you had three people who sided with Republicans on lots of votes. And the party did not like that withheld party resources. for these candidates. So if there is a through line, I think you would just see, especially in primaries, voters want change. Yeah. They disagree on what that change looks like, but that is the through line that I see. I think there is a pretty clear three line on the Democratic side. I think that there was a very clear. You should vote to uphold Josh Diantvito if you're a member of this caucus. And these were also controversial. Like in the past under Cooper, when they came for some Democrats, it wasn't over things that were as controversial, is these overrides with Cunningham and Wellingtonham too. And, yeah. But I think, I mean, a lot of Republican incumbents are fine. Democrats incumbents are fine. But I feel like the Democrats, you know, stood out for these, you know, specific, specific issues, especially really Cunningham, you know, and her speech on. the floor, you know, about immigrants. It wasn't just the income. It was also their Rodney Pierce, Michael Ray, race, where Stein who weighed in to say that Michael Ray should not be able to come back. And just to eliminate that one a little further, Rodney Pierce is a current Democratic incumbent. Michael Ray is a former state lawmaker who was challenging him, but very much like in the middle, if not slightly right leaning. And the governor said, I don't want Ray back here. That's more problematic for me. And Ray was swiftly defeated on Tuesday. Yeah, Ray was known for voting to override veto. Yeah, they don't want that again. They don't. Friday News Roundup, we've talked about the Burger Page. We've talked a little bit about the U.S. Senate race. And some of these incumbents going down on Tuesday have not yet touched on the congressional races of note. In the first congressional district that we have talked about here plenty of times on the program, Brian Anderson, your reporting was front and center in our conversation last week. Don Davis, the Democratic incumbent, moves on in this redrawn district, which is much less favorable to him. He will meet Lori Buckeout.

In the general, tell us a little bit about a buckout getting to the presumptive nomination. Yeah, it's a rematch from 2024. Buckout is an army veteran. She moved to the state five years ago, got a house in Edenton. And Don Davis is someone who has had longer ties to the community, has represented in a mayor role, in a legislative role, and now in a congressional role. So he has an advantage of being a more known. individual, I would say. But the challenge he has is this district would have swung for President Trump by 12 points. And Buckout only lost last time by less than two points. So on paper, this should be Buckout being a slight favorite. But I will say, in a blue wave cycle, we saw a strong Democratic turnout. This is the most competitive congressional race in this state and one of about a few dozen nationally that actually... really matter. So we're going to see a lot of money and a lot of interest. And it may be the only, this is not a misspeak, the only competitive U.S. House race in the American South come November. Yeah, the exception Democrats would have, as they would say, over in Western North Carolina, Helene, frustration with Chuck Edwards, and we have a shot there. And then Greg Murphy, his district, looks very similarly to the first district and is not that politically different from Davises. So Democrats are going to try to make their case. Those two are certainly a much heavier lift. In the first, Buckout v. Davis, in the 11th, just to touch on it briefly, and this is the former Mark Meadows District. And anyone? Madison Cothorn. Thank you. We've got Jamie Ager carrying the Democratic race on Tuesday night with nearly two-thirds of the vote. And the incumbent Chuck Edwards did have a challenger in the primary, but Edwards received about 70 percent of the vote. So that's going to be a well-funded race. It will be interesting. And if that one appears close coming down the stretch, it might be an indicator that it's going to be a good fall for Democrats. So that's the first. in the east, that's the 11th in the West. The race that was ostensibly decided on Tuesday night, anchored by Durham is the fourth congressional race, and this was Valerie Fushi defeating Nita Alam. Don, you have, along with all y'all have covered this one. What was your takeaway there? I was... It was different than when alum ran against Fushi before. The district is a little bit different. The world is different. You know, the political issues are different. And so, you know, the fact that it was close. I kind of was surprised that a lump could have called for a recount and didn't. But it was like, you know, a thousand, more than a thousand votes, I think, and that's a lot harder than two votes, you know, if they had that. But I do think, I mean, Alums is a Durham County Commissioner. Her political career certainly isn't over. It's about 1,200 votes separating them in total, but just less than a percent. Under state law, you can request a recount if you're under one percentage point within that margin. Alam still is initially said she would request a recount. Sure. The window's open. But it's like she, if you. What changed for her the very next day she conceded was the fact that we had this provisional report from the State Board of Elections. If you add up all the numbers based on my math, you get to maybe around 1,050 votes. So is a law going to get 120% of the outstanding votes? No. So it's a statistical impossibility for her to come back, and that's really why she conceded. I want to ask you about turnout. We've got just a few more moments here on the DoSouth Friday News Roundup. Primary turnout here was...

right at 19.64%. I thought that was interesting when we consider four years ago in the primary. Turnout was 19.8%. So pretty consistent. What, well, and this is kind of the next layer here, about 200,000 more votes were cast in Democratic primaries than Republican primaries. What, if anything, does that tell you? And it might not tell you a whole lot. It's another indicator, I think, for the general. I mean, and just kind of the, you know, some people will go vote for somebody. Some people want to vote against somebody, you know, and what drives you to the polls. And just historically, it's midterm elections. Democrats are, whoever's not in the White House, you know, is going to do better. So I think we're just seeing that, you know, November is still a long way away. But I imagine we'll have pretty high. turn out then i think that's right i think it's another I mean, who knows what it happens when now in November, but it's a sign that it could be a blue wave year. Maybe Democrats want the ballot when Trump's president. Turn out in 2026, if anyone listening is wondering, because I was when I was digging these numbers up, was right at 51%. But I did think, and I'm not trying to disparage anybody who didn't vote except for everybody who didn't vote. I'm mostly being playful here. No, 2020, what did I say? 2026. 2022, the general election turnout was 51%, the last midterm we had. But I did think it was interesting that 19.6 figure turnout from this year. It was like with everything going on, not even one in five registered voters. I'm not talking about everybody. Not even one in five registered voters voted. That was. Well, it depends. I mean, if you're in. In some places it was higher. If you're a registered Republican or Democrat, you know, like if or the, you know, smaller parties and you have a primary that you want to vote in or for the Cooper Michael Whatley, if people just assumed it was a done deal. So all these local races, these county level. I think drove people or, you know, obviously your state lawmakers race and then unaffiliated, you know, they get to pick whichever ballot. So was that some sort of driver enough? And then, you know, maybe people are just like, well, wait, you know, in November. I mean, here's the one takeaway I would have is that unaffiliated voters are being pretty calculated and sophisticated with their choices that they make. So if you looked at things. You know, from a bird's IV, you'd see, oh, maybe they're leaning toward the Democratic side. But then if you look at, like, the Rockingham County race, almost 70% of people in Senate District 26 who were unaffiliated and voted early did so on the GOP side. So it's not a black and white thing. Also, I mean, the Democratic primary, there are a lot fewer candidates, I believe. I think it's also a perception thing. We've been in this world where we are locked up on Burger Page, and this is the most important thing to all of us. We're in the bubble. And that's 26,000 voters. Yep. So in the braces that really could drive turnout, you had a wide open Republican primary for U.S. Senate. That was pretty interesting. This time the Senate primaries.

They just weren't that interesting. That is fair. They weren't that interesting. Raw numbers, one and a half million people voted in our state on Tuesday. Of registered voters, there were about 6.1 million. who did not vote. So many of them will vote come November. We are unfortunately out of time. We could keep chatting North Carolina politics, news and info for quite some time, but we can't. I invited he's on the way after a news update. Big thanks to Adam Wagner, reporter and editor covering state politics for the North Carolina Newsroom, collaboration between public radio stations. in North Carolina. Brian Anderson was with us as well, statewide politics reporter for the assembly, creator of the Anderson Alerts, newsletter, and Don Vaughn, Capital Bureau Chief at the News and Observer, as well as the host of the Under the Dome podcast, heard wherever you download podcasts. This is Due South. It's a production of WNC and a broadcast service of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Our producers are Stasia Brown, Cole Del Charko, and Rachel McCarthy. Rachel Hernandez is our intern. Danarius Thomas is the technical director, Aaron Kiever, executive producer. or theme music comes from Quilla. For Leonita Inge, I'm Jeff Tabiri. Enjoy your weekend. We will chat with you again Monday at noon.

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