Illinois Isn't Broken. It's Fixed.

Thanks for listening to Chicago's Morning Answer podcast sponsored by Signature Bank. Signature Bank takes pride in helping customers grow their business and provide unmatched banking expertise, custom financial solutions, and the industry's best technology. So whether you're a business looking for a deposit relationship or needs a ready source of financing, Signature Bank is the right bank for you. Call today at 773-467. 5600 to hear how signature bank can help your business grow and thrive. Member FDIC Equal Housing Lender. This is Chicago's morning answer with Dan Proft on AM 560. The answer. Top of the morning, Dan Proft here. So this clip of... The detestable Connecticut Center, Chris Murphy, from a couple years ago when he was on with either Chris Hayes or Rachel Maddow on MS, whatever they call it. I can't, I can never tell the two Chris Matt. Hayes, Chris Maddow. That's probably the better way to do it. Just turn them into one ghouish figure. Anyway, Chris Murphy. had an excited utterance in that conversation with Chris Maddo when he said this. The negotiation didn't have a path to citizenship. It was entirely on their terms in order to get Ukraine fund, right?

And particularly so when even as I've talked about this before too, but for refresher, even as legacy media is dying, well, legacy media is dying, Dan, the daily newspapers don't have the circulation, so on the right, except that Google and Apple are delivering the Amazon Post and delivering the New York Times and exclusively content of that sort to smartphones across the Western world. So they've been resurrected. Those dying outlets have been resurrected by the social media giants that share their philosophy. So they still enjoy the run of the place. And that's what's frustrating about it, is I feel... like we're so much talking to ourselves, and this isn't about what I have to say about it, it's about trying to break through and get the story of Katie Abraham or get the story of Sheridan and Gordon on everybody's mind in a sustained way. So it actually informs their understanding, not just of this issue, but of the choices on the ballot come election time. And as much as we've talked about and people listen to the show, Joe Abraham again, well, good for Joe Abraham because he has been as ubiquitous as he can. I think he's doing this as a coping mechanism, not to psychoanalyze him, but he's doing it as a coping mechanism, giving something to do and giving purpose and obviously doing this in honor of his daughter. and, frankly, in a selfless way, trying to use the story of what happened to his daughter to get other people to pay attention so that maybe it doesn't happen to their daughters. And the same thing that Jennifer Boss did. You'll remember Jennifer Boss, her daughter, Megan, who struggled with addiction, disappeared in February of 2025. And she wasn't located until a couple months later, a person in this country illegally had hidden her body and, you know, and undermined the, obviously by definition, undermined the effort to locate Megan. And she sort of said the same thing that Joe Abraham said there. We get a little bit of attention. It quickly subsides with respect to the D.C. Press Corps. And then we're sort of left talking to ourselves or whoever will talk to us. But it's people who are already engaged on the issue largely and who already get what needs to be done here. You said your stories and all the stories of Angel families are ignored? Yes. All of them? They are. They make the news, some of them, that are more egregious, more sensational. And then when that shock is over...

People forget. People forget about them. They're not talked about it. And people dismiss them as being included with the same, on the same level as every other crime committed here in the United States by other citizens. And it's just different. It is different. J.B. Pritzker needs to point the finger directly at himself. These are his policies, his laws that they enacted with their super blue majority in this state. Nobody has had a choice. They have run us over with these policies that protect these illegal aliens above and beyond the citizens of Illinois. And it is absolutely despicable. But Governor J.B. Pritzker insists that he needs to protect them all and is for political power and nothing more. Right. Connecting those dots. You get to connect them if you're invited on Fox. Fox will do some platforming of angel families to connect those dots. But again, you're speaking to the Fox audience. You're speaking to the AM 560 answer audience. And, you know, and obviously Twitter is more open and expansive, but it's still, you still siloed. Your feeds can be curated such that you ignore cognitive dissonance. So it's a real challenge. It's just, it's not as impactful as it should be. I mean, even within Republican primary voters, I mean, Joe Abraham's endorsement of Ted Zabrowski and the commercials we ran, including during Bears Packers playoff game. And, you know, people couldn't just, people still sort of couldn't, aren't intellectually curious enough to really grab onto that. I don't know, maybe the commercial wasn't compelling enough. I thought it was. It was Joe Abraham in his own words. It's always compelling. Joe's always compelling. So there's a real problem. There's just a real disconnect. So you want to understand why these things persist despite general opposition, general support for some of the commonsensical things that you're hearing from angel moms and dads who are not particularly political.

There's not the repetition to build the rapport to get the awareness to the sort of passively engaged American citizen, which is clearly the overwhelming majority. And it's really frustrating because these stories should be told over and over again. And these... young people in particular should be remembered. There's only one radio show in Chicago talking about today's biggest stories and telling you what they really mean. That show is this one. Chicago's morning answer on AM 560, The Answer. Business owners, now's the time for your business to make the move to a locally owned business bank. Hi, Mike Gallagher here to let you know that you don't have to look far. Signature Bank was founded in Chicago with a simple mission to help companies like yours grow, succeed, and thrive. Their decisions are made locally by a terrific team that knows your name, cares about your business, and invests in your success. That's why Signature Bank is my bank. I'm a customer. As business owners, they knew that local family-owned businesses we're not getting the help they needed or deserved. So, I invite you to reach out to my friends at Signature Bank today. Write the number down. Remember this phone number. Signature Bank, 773-467-5630. And learn all about this great bank, 773-467-5630, or visit them online at SignatureBank.Bank. That's SignatureBank.com. Signature Bank makes commercial banking personal. Member FDIC, Equal Housing Lender.

If you're looking for the latest news, insight into what it means, and the sharpest opinion, there's only one station in Chicago where you can turn, and it's this one. We're AM 560. The answer. Top of the morning, Dan Prop here. We were just discussing Joe Abraham's testimony before a Senate committee yesterday on sanctuary states and immigration policy. Before we get back to Joe and some comments from Jennifer Boss as well, Speaker Johnson, Mike Johnson, had something to say about the Sheridan Gorman murder and Illinois at NRCC CONFAB. I thought it was very reminiscent. It reminded me of what someone once said about Illinois. You take the life of Sheridan Gorman. The irony of all this is that the system did not fail Sheridan. That worked exactly as the Democrats intended. You had Democrats in charge of the White House and in charge in the city of Chicago. Open borders policies, sanctuary cities policies. They coddled the criminal illegal alien. They empowered. They allowed this to happen. And that's why we're so angry about it. He was in the custody of law enforcement twice. And there were two chances to stop Sheridan's killer. But Democrats open borders guaranteed their release, and their soft-on-crime sanctuary policies ensured his impunity, and that's why this happened. And Sheridan Gorman should still be with us, and her entire life still ahead of her. But it's the same fate that befell Lake and Riley, too, and so many others. How many more times did this story have to be repeated? Everybody needs to be asking that question. Unfortunately, the Democrats agenda was going to continue to come at the expense of American citizens, innocent American people, as long as the Democrats insist on shielding dangerous criminals from our laws. The system didn't fail. It performed exactly as it was set up to perform. It's almost like Illinois isn't broken. It's fixed. You know what I mean? 312-642-2-5600 to give us a call or text, working exactly as it's intended to work. And the word that Johnson used impunity is the right one. When I think impunity, I think of Democrats, neo-Marxists during the State of the Union speech sitting on their hands when Jocelyn Nungary's mom was recognized, for example. They do so with impunity because they know exactly who they're in business to serve. So they set up the system to serve those they are in business to serve that keep them in power. Right. Joe Abraham had some comments on Illinois too. It's disgusting in a way. I really, we should not be left alone on an island because we don't fit a certain ideology. I am so sorry that certain folks only live by their ideology, their North Star, and that is a bad life to live. I think they're missing out on so many other things. Meanwhile, my daughter's taken away. I'll never see her again. I haven't seen her, heard her laugh.

Hear a talk, haven't grabbed her hold her kids. 14 months now. Does anyone consider that? I mean, Sheriff, do you even? I mean, I can't believe what I'm hearing on some of this stuff today. But, you know, I'm not some politician or a bureaucrat. I'm a dad who had his head down, worked his tail off for his kids. Thinking foolishly, she was safe in some city. I know Illinois is corrupt and it's always been awful. They always had guardrails. The old school guys did. And then I hear some of the stuff here. I'm sorry. It's awful. You know, J.B. Pritzker's will say, oh, look, you got justice. We found him. If crime happens, you're good to go. We got him, and he's incarcerated now. And my point there is, your daughter should still be alive. My daughter's in a grave. She'll never see the light of day. Will he? Yes. But what did you do for him? He did nothing for him. You left him aimlessly in Illinois, and now he'll sit in decades, hopefully, in jail. Bang up job, Illinois on that one. They're the people that Democrats care the most about. Jennifer Boss had a good riff that she picked up from another angel mom, the conversation that she had with Bill Hummer. You want to talk about family separation? Since that's one of the things that is screeched by these professional agitators and offals, I repeat myself, the general nitwit class that you see outside, oh, I don't know, the Broadview Ice Facility. Let's talk about family separation. People are outraged that families are being separated and all of this, but they're being separated by a border. As another angel mom says, Agnes Gibney, she says, were separated by six feet of dirt and a coffin. That's forever. Ray Lopez.

Alder Human Ray Lopez. Friend of the show. He was on Fox yesterday as well, speaking out of this. Something that he said before, but he repeated again, and it bears repeating. The whole preventable nature of all of this. There are a couple thousand people that we know are predators. We know who they are in Chicago. Ice knows who they are. And they can't do anything about it. Well, he's absolutely blaming Donald Trump. And I'm not a rabid Trump supporter or a hater. But if you're going to blame the federal government, then blame it where this problem began, which was under the Biden-Harris administration that allowed 15 million people from South America, Central America, and across the oceans to come through our southern borders, manipulate asylum, be poorly vetted, and then scattered... to the seven wins of the United States. That's where this problem started. And I have yet to hear a single Democrat hold Biden and Harris accountable for what has happened. Because they knew who they were allowing in. They have their information. They vetted them poorly and still let them go even when they were criminals. And to say it's Donald's Trump. Donald Trump's fault simply because we refuse to work with them to go after those high-priority targets. There are 2,000 priority targets in the city of Chicago right now who we know our dangers, courtesy of the Biden-Harris administration that vetted them, but we will not allow the Trump administration to remove them simply because we don't want to look as that we're capitulating to him. 2,000 high-priority targets. We know who they are. ICE knows who they are, and we run interference for those 2,000 high-priority targets. That's the sum total of it. And most of the people listening to this show already know this or have some idea about it. And the people not listening to their show never will. And they'll vote to reelect all of these Neal Marxists and all the people with blood on their hands and all the people who have been, who they have. insulated from consequences the same way the people they elect insulate predators from consequences. And the beat goes on. 312-642-4-2-50-600 to give us a call or text. I mean, I've said this many, many times before, but... It just seems to me there is just no level of indignity they can impose that will spark a response from decent people. I mean, not on the scale that's required, obviously, in individual cases. It's a real headshaker. No level of indignity. Even making... Every Illinois resident listening to this show, a co-conspirator in Sheridan Gorman's murder. What do I mean by that? In addition to those comments that you heard from Alderman Lopez, he also said the city of Chicago should pull the funding of Refugee 1. That's the taxpayer-backed nonprofit.

that allegedly funded the living expenses of the man now charged with murdering Sheridan Gorman. And we'll get him arraigned, this public safety threat, we'll get him arraign just as soon as he's no longer a public health threat. And he gets over his bout with tuberculosis. The West Ridge Bay's Refugee One should have its $2.7 million in grants revoked, said Ray Lopez. The individual lived in an apartment with his mother, 6825 North Sheridan Road, according to police reports. That's where Refugee One pays his rent. I mentioned this before. We ran ads about it, too, during the primary. Did you think this was just an abstraction? When we talk about rental assistance and obviously health care and food and in-state tuition, the billions of dollars of your money that's being spent for people in this country illegally residing in Illinois, you thought it was just on the good people?

There is no level of insult. We will not endure in order to not do anything about it. We writ large. And what can you say other than look at the scoreboard? And we run the same plays and the same players over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Chris and Rogers Park. Yeah, a big problem we have is that many of our aldermen, our mayor, et cetera, they're actually communists. And what they really believe is that it's the fault of the United States and our foreign policies that are causing communism or extreme socialism to not work in places like Venezuela. Therefore, we have to let these people in. Because if it wasn't for Big Bad USA and our policies, things would be great over there and they'd be able to live where they want. Because of that, now we have to have open borders. And if there's a casualty of a college kid that gets shot at the pier in Rogers Park, that's just one life. But there's millions of people in Venezuela that have a problem because of our foreign policy. And they really believe that. I think they really do. Thanks for the call, Chris.

Bill, Northwest Side. Yeah, it all comes down to situational awareness and self-defense. We're in Chicago. Our children are in Chicago. It's a danger zone. And as you said, the system is working exactly the way they want it to work. So trying to appeal to the political class for your safety, it ain't going to work. Thanks for the call, Bill. Marvin, Burlington, Wisconsin. Yeah, I don't know. You have a daughter like me. He's the same age as that girl, and it just tears me up. But here they have it. The system is such they don't. They're beating people down. You feel like you go and you vote, and look what happened. I mean, I hate to bring it up again, but look at that idiot rounder that we voted in. And he betrayed the whole Republican Party. Yeah. So you have, you've got, we've got people who, oh, yeah, go out and vote, go out and vote, but nothing, nothing changes. Nothing changes. What am I wasting my time for? I mean, I go out and vote. I got, I got people I work with. They haven't even heard of this murder. It's like, what world are you living in? You know, they're more interested in music and this crap and that crap than what could be. affecting their family in the future. I don't know how to deal with the complacency. It's like you say, it's a hedge tractor. Be right back. Take more of your calls and comments. And there's another piece of this update on the Sheridan Gorman matter. It'll be back right after this. It's news, opinion, insight. This is Chicago's morning answer on AM 560. The answer. Business owners, now's the time for your business to make the move to a locally owned business bank. Hi, Mike Gallagher here to let you know that you don't have to look far. Signature Bank was founded in Chicago with a simple mission to help companies like yours grow, succeed, and thrive. Their decisions are made locally by a terrific team that knows your name, cares about your business, and invests in your success. That's why Signature Bank is my bank. I'm a customer. As business owners, they knew that local family-owned businesses we're not getting the help they needed or deserved. So, I invite you to reach out to my friends at Signature Bank today. Write the number down. Remember this phone number. Signature Bank, 773-467-5630. And learn all about this great bank, 773-467-5630, or visit them online at SignatureBank.Bank. That's Signature Bank.com. Signature bank makes commercial banking personal. Member FDIC, Equal Housing. Thank you. All right. Just picking up where we left off, there's a couple of more exhibits I need to enter into evidence as to the, there is no level of insult. The Illinois electorate will not endure. No level of dignity they will not suffer in order to keep things the way they are. Or make them worse. BLM Brandon, speaking of making it worse.

He had some additional comments on Sheridan Gorman's murder yesterday. Now, if you didn't see the visual, you really have to appreciate, you really have to see it to appreciate how much of a FU this is to you. was to unveil the city snowplow truck with the name Abolish Ice. Because, of course, that was the winner of the name game this winter. Isn't that clever? So he is standing in front of the sign on the side of that snowplow, abolish ice, while delivering... These comments about Sheridan Gorman murdered by a person in this country illegally who the political class here, including him, made interference for against ICE. F you, that's the translation of what you're about to hear. This is. a terrible tragedy. And what I've said from the very beginning, I'm going to continue to use every single tool that's available to me to protect the residents of the city of Chicago. And this tragedy is not going to deter us from our work. In fact, it's going to challenge us all to double down on our efforts to ensure that we are protecting every single individual across neighborhoods. They look. While standing in front of an abolish ice sign. I mean, this would be something out of a Chappelle show skit if this were funny and it's not. It's pathetic. The city is pathetic.

One more piece of this. I've seen some people make comments, text. Loyola University's campus newspaper, The Phoenix, originally reported on Sheridan Gorman's murder. Immigrant Man charged in murder of Sheridan Gorman, DHS involved. Immigrant Man. Not generous enough. Because in the original story, they refer to... the individual charged as an illegal immigrant. Well, you know what comes next. Facing a backlash, the student newspaper edited the post to remove the term illegal immigrant. The newspaper now refers to Sheridan Gorman's killer as a Rogers Park resident, much more generous. The newspaper added, I mean, you can say it with me. You've seen the signs in Naperville lawns. No human's existence is illegal, and we quickly changed our wording to reflect that. Right, because that's what we're talking about. His existence as a person, as opposed to his physical place in time when we say illegal or not illegal. We're talking about the existential state of being. The institutions that have all disintegrated before your very eyes. That's how a city disintegrates. That's how a state disintegrates. And that includes the universities. And that clearly includes Loyola. Anybody you want to take up that charge on campus?

encourage your sons or daughters who are attending Loyola to do so. The alumni to step in. Maybe support an independent alternative campus paper like the one I helped to co-found back in my day at Northwestern to expand the parameters of debate and thought on campus. If there isn't already one on Loyola's campus, I don't know. And if there is, provide greater funding for it. Mike, Harwood Heights. Good morning, Dan. That student newspaper apologizing for calling that a legal immigrant and a legal immigrant. If I had a son or daughter attending Loyola University, yesterday would have been their last day at that school. I'd have yank their butt out of there so fast. Thanks for the call, Mike. Appreciate it. Tom in Blue Island, quickly, Tom. Dan, how are you? Good morning. Dan, I want someone to come up with a motive. We had that alder woman saying this poor girl was in the wrong place at the wrong time. How does she know? How do we know that this punk wasn't out there just looking to shoot a white girl? And you had the Mr. Abraham on earlier who said, yeah, that guy's going to jail, but my daughter's gone, and that's the same here. And I... I want him to defend why the dude was there and what happened. Thanks, Tom. Appreciate that. This is the morning show. More Chicago radio listeners are choosing. This is Chicago's morning answer on AM 560. The answer. This is Chicago's morning answer with Dan Proft on AM 560. The answer.

Top of the morning, Dan Proft here. So the DHS shutdown and thus the non-payment of TSA agents and others. Continues. Has anybody been at an airport recently want to share their experience? Because even with the addition of ICE officers to provide some of the non-technical work, provide security things that they can do relatively easily, including just nice things, passing out water to people online, I've seen some of those videos. There are still significant wait times at airports just based on anecdotal. man at the airport interviews of network affiliates and some of the cable news channels I've seen. So, you know, just your experience in and around O'Hare. I've got a couple of flights coming up next month, and I'm wondering if I need to rent John Madden's bus instead of actually getting on a plane. 312-642-2-5600. If you have perspective on this, the perspective on this from a policy position is that... There's no give from the other side. The White House turned down Elon Musk's offer to pay the salaries of TSA agents for, I don't know, the foreseeable future, I guess. I don't know how much Elon Musk wanted to commit to this project. It was a nice gesture, if nothing else. But Polyachi Chuck Schumer. and the boys and girls of the neo-Marxist party in the Senate are digging in, they are taking an absolutist position, no compromise, even after there were some compromises offered by the Trump administration, by the White House. No dice. So this will continue because the overriding point here is to prevent. the deportations of the people that they care about most. Thank you, Chris Murphy. And it has failed to deliver for the people we care about most, the undocumented Americans that are in this country. As I mentioned last hour, when he said that two years ago, he meant it. And he was speaking on behalf of his party, and now we're seeing his party act in furtherance of what he said two years ago, aren't we? A couple perspectives. Some of the... a more entertaining man at the airport interviews I saw. First, this Andrew Dice Clay, Andrew Dice Clay, Wannabe in a Jersey trying to get to the Bahamas. Oh, they're right there. All right. They're good to hear to help. They're not bothering nobody. As long as they can check my bags and get me on my flight, I'm good to go. Right? I want to get to the Bahamas. I want out of here.

Check my bigs. Okay. Who was that guy on Jersey Shore? The situation. Am I remember? I think that's right. So ICE is being received very well, something that didn't go on notice by the president. He thinks he's doing a wonderful job of repairing the reputation of ice in the minds of many, seeing ICE officers up close and personal. has been a benefit. This is what Trump had to say at that NRCC confab. In an airport, no. I said, fellas, do you mind take it off your masks in the airport? And they took them off. And people said, wow, these are nice guys. And they're helping the people with their bags. They're moving things along. It's a beautiful thing to see. People are starting to say ice. You're nice guys. We really appreciate it. So the Democrats in their violence and viciousness have done us a favor. Well, we'll see about that. There's still a lot of violence and viciousness that is supported by high levels of ignorance among certain cohorts in the electorates. So I don't think that's going to change overnight even. if somebody would take a bottle of water from an ice agent while waiting in line. Here's a guy in Houston. You know, he got there pretty early. He was waiting in line a good four hours, and he was still going to miss his flight. What's your message to Congress that could put an end to all this? It would be ideal. This isn't working for us right now. Iron mall. There he is. Iron mall. This is taxpayer money. My flight leaves in 16 minutes. 16 minutes. It doesn't seem like you're making that flight. What are you going to do about it? I don't know. Go home, work in the yard. Do you have anywhere to be? It's important. Yeah, I had a reunion with my high school buddies. And now you're forced to miss that. Is that frustrating? What's that view? Can we move the line? Yeah. We'll walk with these so that we can keep the line moving. Good morning, everybody. What time did you come to the airport? I got to the airport at, I don't know what time I get in here. 5.30, something like that. All right. Brooke, doing a great job down there. Yeah, I'm not looking to spend four and a half hours in a security line at an airport. So. Don in Bloomingdale. Hey, Dan. I flew last week down to Austin. We got to the airport earlier than normal at O'Hare, and the line wasn't bad. In fact, we went to the non-TSA line because it was the non-TSA pre-check line because it was faster. But Austin was probably 20 minutes to a half hour. But the cool thing was every... TSA guy I talked to, I said, hey, remember who's doing this to you? And they would nod and say, yeah, we know. I go, you guys aren't getting paid because my son works for the FAA. So he got locked out last time. And I'm sympathetic with these guys. They're kind of just being pawned. For sure. Absolutely. Thanks for the call, Don. I mean, something that, well, you know, one of the most reliable, commonsensical political spokesman,

People who play by the Rules has all of a sudden these days. John Fetterman. Angry, they are frustrating. They're exhausting to what they've been put through. Now, these are not wealthy people. They earn around $50,000 a year. That should be our wheelhouse. I mean, they're union government workers, and now if we refuse to give them a paycheck, you know, don't talk about affordability if you don't even provide them with a paycheck. So it's always wrong regardless whatever the party is doing it. shutting down our government. And you can see the kinds of chaos that's created across our... Yeah, chaos is good because we create chaos and then we project it as somebody else's, to be somebody else's fault. And I know people have remarked, too, that significant percentages of the TSA agents who are not being paid for the work they do... are minorities. And wait a second. And they express this like with surprise. Don't they know that those are their constituents, their significant populations of minorities? You think they care about them? You think they care about anybody? The identitarianism they play is all for the purpose of manipulation. People are mascots or boogeymen. They fall into two buckets for the neo-Marxists. Mascots or boogeymen, maybe a third, useful idiots. That's sort of anybody who would allow themselves to be made a mascot, sort of synonymous with being a useful idiot. So, I mean, if they, look, that's a small percentage of whatever of blacks or Latinos. We can make the bigger, better play down the road about white supremacy and the white man and the patriarchy and how we're looking after the people with the highest intersectional scores and we're going to provide more opportunity and we're going to give you this set aside. And we're going to. This is the first time they've exploited people regardless of their fealty to that party. Of course not. They'll get over it. We'll get them over it. That's the thinking. Now, Joe in Naperville first. Go ahead, Joe. Yes. I have a plan I'm going to catch out of here tomorrow. My plan is to bring a couple of gift cards. Not much. I don't have much money with some of these TSA agents that are working without paid. They deserve to get at least a little something in their pocket. It's incredible what they're doing, sacrificing for us for these moron politicians. That's cool. Yeah, good. Good for you, Joe.

Now, some other people are seizing the opportunity to continue with the vilification of ice because it's worked so great, it's worked great so far. Why stop now? Larry Krasner is the Kim Fox of Philadelphia. Easily reelected to be the Philly DA. Is he honky? He sure is. Is he a decarceration, non-prosecution, defunded police advocate? Yes, he is. And he's got a message for ICE. He had a message for ICE upon the occasion that they would be deployed to the airport in Philly to assist with operations there as they have in a dozen or so other airports around the country. He's got a message. Don't think you're above the law in Philly, not with Larry Krasner on the job. This is how it works. You commit crimes within the jurisdiction that is the city and county of Philadelphia. I prosecute you. That is how it works. No, I don't take a phone call from the president saying, let him go. No, the president cannot pardon you. I'll say it again. The president cannot pardon you. And yes. I will put you in handcuffs, and I will put you in a courtroom, and if necessary, I will put you in a jail cell. If you decide to make the tarasso floor of this airport, anything like what you did in the streets of Minneapolis, which involved the criminal homicide of unarmed innocent people. We are not having that here. Mm-hmm. He's leading... Big city prosecutor. I'm sorry. Has anybody been convicted of criminal homicide? Is there a civil homicide, by the way? Counselor. Has anybody been convicted of homicide in Minnesota? Any ICE agents? Did I miss that story? Right. But don't you worry, Larry Krasner is just a lawman who goes wherever the facts lead. He has no agenda, no ideology. Sure. Of course not. Big tough guy. Right. ICE is going to storm the Philly airport and start indiscriminately shooting people. That's what Larry Krasner wants you to believe about ICE. Easily reelected in Philadelphia. Karoline Leavitt, she is the White House spokesman, don't you know? She was... asked about those comments and said this. They cannot pardon you for what? He's talking to the ICE agents who are handing out water bottles and are helping people move through lines at airports. It's a disgraceful comment. The men and women of ICE are great people. I would encourage this lawmaker whose name I don't know and don't care to know to actually sit down and speak with the ICE agents who are on the ground doing this important work, not just in our nation's airport. But again, to remove violent, dangerous illegal alien criminals from our country to protect this individual and all of us in this room and Americans across the country from murderers, pedophiles, and rapists who have been allowed into our country by Democrat politicians. Yeah. Okay. But hey, Caroline, I would encourage you to know who Larry Krasner is, that he's not a lawmaker, that he's the Philadelphia District Attorney. He's a law enforcer.

And you should care to know who he is and what he's doing. So you can be much more specific about it and much more pointed in your comments about somebody who would wear the garments of that office and behave the way that Krasner does, say the things that Krasner says. The kinds of things that would have made bury a blush. Chris and Blue Island. Dan, it drives me bananas. That bottle of water that they're giving out is $7 at a public stadium, and they're giving it out for free. We're $39 trillion in debt. There's no reason there should be a line at TSA. There's always a gazillion employees. All they're doing is harassing people and telling people to take off their belt. They already, they collect the fees in our baggage and our ticket fees. Is that all for the TSA? And then really, why, how is the line slower today than it was when they were doing their job? If it's so much slower today, they should get a reduced paycheck for not doing their job like they did before. Well, I would say possible. Well, I mean, they're not being paid and they're still expected to show up for work. So that's one issue. Their employer is not fulfilling their side of the contract. So that's a problem, isn't it? So they drag their feet? They just drag their feet, then? Well, you have people calling off sick or people quitting outright, and so you have staffing shortages. I mean, you can follow the logic of this. So why we just drive the trucks lower and we get paid to say? Are you kidding me? That's going to happen. Well, they're not being paid. $39 million in debt, Dan. Thanks for the caucus. Well, yeah, I get the $39 trillion in debt, but that's not. The fundamental point here is that you have a government that isn't doing its job. Now, you can argue about what the budget level should be and what the TSA staffing level should be and privatizing TSA. I was opposed to federalizing it in the first place. I get all of those macro policy arguments. Am I like, is somebody who enjoys the TSA experience? No. Do I think it's mostly security theater? Yes. Do you see more TSA agents than it's probably required at these security checkpoints? I'm not a security expert, but I don't see a lot of people that exactly look like they're doing things that are greatly enhancing the safety of my experience at the airport. Okay. I mean, so all of those points, fine. However. People are hired to do a job, just like you would be. People are hired to do a job. There are contractual obligations on both sides. When the employers is failing to live up to their contractual obligations in the most fundamental way, compensation for work performed, that's a problem. And I am sympathetic to TSA agents that are holding up their end and the government, their employers, not holding up.

our end, essentially, since we fund the government. That's a problem. You want to change the deal on a go-for basis? Fine. You want to reduce the TSA headcount? Okay. I'm open-minded on the topic. But in terms of this very narrow issue of this deal, I mean, let's be a little bit empathetic to people that are doing work and not getting paid and holding up their end of the bargain. That's all. Doug and Oswego. Oh, boy, yeah. I can see a pretty good argument to privatize the industry. The airlines just take it over themselves and not have to worry about all these nitwits in Congress, you know. responsible for paying these people. Yeah, but that's assuming the airlines want the liability exposure of having to oversee security, and I'm not sure they do. Thanks for the call. Maybe the local units of government, you know, the airport authorities, perhaps. You know, and you have some people stepping in, too. I mean, that Ed Bastion, CEO of Delta, made a splash the other day when he said, okay, we're not providing any, you know, special cuts in line to politicians so long as DHS has shut down. And, you know, it's a nice little populist play there, very politically savvy, I suppose. The larger point, you know, in terms of, why do you ever let Congress humans cut in line? You know, Chuck Schumer has to get somewhere real fast because he's so important in the digital age. No, I don't think so. Just get in line like everybody else, Paliachi. I wish more institutions, including corporate America, would treat policy. I know they got to play ball with them and they're regulated and so, and they want relationships and they want to slight them. I mean, I get all of the obvious things here. But it would be nice. You're just another citizen, man. You're a temporary representative of, well, in the Chuck Schumer's case, just for example, the state of New York. You'll be gone soon. Somebody else will be there. Let's just make sure we understand that, you know, we're all equal under the law and in the eyes of God and in the security line of our choosing. The stories you need to know to start your day. This is Chicago's morning answer on AM 560, The Answer.

Text from 773. Don't some airports, having some airports privatized TSA already. Yeah, they have. We talked about this pretty early in the week. There's about 20 airports that have privatized it, and they are not experiencing the same problems as some of the airports. That happened. Also, this from 708 left O'Hare last Saturday afternoon. It took five minutes to go through TSA. However, talking to the workers that morning was a giant blank show with lines out the door leaving Charleston today. We'll let you know how it goes. I love Charleston. Charleston, that's a great. That's a great city. Um, okay. Well, we'll try to keep you updated and you keep me updated so I can keep others updated. Very good. This is the morning show. More Chicago radio listeners are choosing. This is Chicago's morning answer on AM 560. The answer. Only the biggest stories. Only the biggest guests. And only the biggest opinions. This is AM 560, the answer. Top of the morning, Dan Proff here. So the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step as it goes. And that single step has been taken by JD Vance and his Trump imprinted task force to root out benefits fraud across the country. 70 California hospice and home health providers have been suspended from receiving Medicaid funds, joint federal state program. The funding is officially paused. Baby steps. That journey needs to proceed at a brisk pace to say the least. And that's not me saying it. That's James Comer saying it. And it's not even James Comer saying it. It's actually the state of California saying it. A state audit that found just with hospice providers. per that CBS expose a couple weeks back that we poured over, just with hospice providers. The possibility of upwards of $3.5 billion worth of fraud. That involves 2,000 hospice providers, some 112 of which are in the same fracken building. That's not a red flag.

More hospice providers concentrated in L.A. than in the rest of the country combined. That's not a red flag. James Comer. We're focused solely on hospice fraud in California, specifically in Los Angeles County. A state audit just came out and confirmed that there's at least $3.5 billion. billion dollars in hospice fraud primarily in one county, Los Angeles County, in California. That $3.5 billion price tag represents over 10% of the total bill for the federal government for hospice in all 50 states in every city and every state in America. So the red flags are there that there was rampant fraud. There's a whistleblower that's come forward that alleges that... Kevin Gavin Newsom knew about this. This is a very similar scenario to what we had in Minnesota. So we're moving our investigation after Minnesota into California. We believe this is the tip of the iceberg. So we're going to be focused solely on fraud in California. Ooh, ooh, ooh, do Illinois next. 312-4-2-5600 to give us a call or text. For me, 47, are there any examples of fraud in Illinois, Chicago? Is there any system in Illinois or Chicago or frankly at the federal level that you think is exempt from fraud that does not feature fraud as one of its offerings, which of course is why it's hilarious to listen to people suggest there's no such thing as voter fraud? Every other system program the government runs. Particularly big social engineering programs, big benefits programs. Of course there is. What you hear from politicians across the public spectrum all the time? Ways fraud and abuse. Of course there's fraud. It's a fraud is endemic. You know, read a little bit of a public choice theory. You know, George Buchanan and James Buchanan won a Nobel Prize distilling it. To put it in very simple terms, one of the takeaways, people are not as judicious with other people's money as they are with their own money. Yeah, a shocking revelation, I know. Is there fraud in Chicago? No. No, pay no attention to the, what was it, $2 trillion? No, it was more than that. Four or five trillion dollars, $4 or $5 trillion in unemployment insurance fraud that was unearthed a couple of years ago under Governor Jellybelly. I mean, how about all the state, county, cook, city, Chicago, employees who've been picked off for COVID-related fraud? I know it's a small percentage, but it's in the hundreds. Still real money. Real other people's money. Yeah, that's why do us next. But also, we could do some of the heavy lifting ourselves. I mean...

It really takes a lot to unearth it. You get a list of hospice providers, autism service providers, daycare centers that are on the Medicaid rolls, and you go knock on the doors. And the first thing you do is look to see how many of those who provide similar services, health transport services and so forth are concentrated at the same address. If I was so motivated, I'd do it myself, but I have to work on my short game and my 100-yard-in game. That's my priority. But, you know, hey, somebody else, a bit more enterprising, feel free to pick up the baton and run with it. Nick Shirley and a bunch of other people have sort of given you a roadmap, but it's really not that complicated. Can you find it in Chicago and Illinois? No. Of course not. And you think that they have hidden it well, knowing that they have been under no scrutiny for generations, certainly not facing any opposition political party. The only thing they have to worry about occasionally is a U.S. attorney who may be trying to make a name for himself by actually prosecuting some fraudsters and corrupt politicians in this city, county state. But that's actually fairly rare as well. Getting a lot of support over the top. You know, Vice President, writing point on it, Dr. Oz, James Comer, House Oversight, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at HHS. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at HHS just offered this on a podcast recently about what he learned when he got in there from HHS employees. I mean, this, again, won't shock you. But the question is now, once it's been substantiated, what are we going to see done about it? And this is why, boy, bringing the resources to bear, empowering U.S. attorneys. by selecting the right ones. And also, I'm going to get to in a second, this legislation sponsored by Ashley Moody, who's the senator from Florida, to empower state AGs. No more excuses. This is not exactly a treasure hunt. This stuff is fairly easy to flesh out. Even California state auditors can flesh it out. That's how easy it is. So now you know who to hold responsible. People with investigative and prosecutorial authority. So what did you produce? Keep us updated. We'll be waiting. Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. I'm not partisan person, but one of the things that I found out from people in my agency was they were ordered by the Biden White House not to do program integrity. In other words, not to enforce against fraud. And they said they were told we want to focus on only enrollment and getting more and more people into the system. Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is, you know, sort of cloward Piven 2.0. It doesn't just include larding the welfare roles with Americans. It also includes larding the welfare roles, the benefit roles with people from every country on the planet once you open the borders.

Yeah, of course it's about enrollment. Once you've conferred a benefit, it's very difficult to take it away. And for the most part, Republicans don't have much courage in this direction either. So fraud, frotting people, you know, rooting out the fraud is the quickest and most likely way you'll actually reduce the roles here. And legitimately, you know, you don't qualify for these benefits so you shouldn't be receiving them. Again, not a complicated formulation. People can follow along. Dr. Oz, head of Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, is previewing a moratorium. Let me be blunt. What we're seeing in parts of South Florida isn't just suspicious. It's outrageous. The number of questionable durable medical equipment suppliers spoke to Cynthia canes or wheelchairs is exploded, especially here in Palm Beach and adjacent Miami-Dade County. In some neighborhoods, now listen carefully, there are twice as many, twice as many suppliers as McDonald's. That's not a coincidence. That's the red flag. As it turns out... Transnational criminal organizations are involved. So we acted. CMS put a nationwide freeze. It's called a moratorium on enrolling new DME suppliers in Medicare. That's the insurer for older Americans. We're cutting off the pipeline. And Florida is not hesitating either. This week, the state stepped up with a plan to go on the offense, requesting its own moratorium for Medicaid. That's the program that safeguards are most vulnerable. They want to slow down durable medical equipment suppliers too. That's how you respond when the system is being gained. Now, Ron DeSantis and his team are putting real teeth behind enforcement. They're tightening oversight, going after bad actors. They're making it clear that the free ride is over. And we're working side by side to make sure the safeguards are strong, not just on paper, but in practice. Because here's the truth. You don't beat fraud with talk. You beat it with coordination, with transparency, and with the courage to act. And when states and the federal government lock arms like this, we don't just slow fraud down. We shut it all. Good. I mean, and that's again, just another, durable medical equipment suppliers. I wouldn't have thought of that. But, you know, that's why you pour over where the money is going and say, as Dr. Oz just mentioned, gosh, in southeast Florida, I guess, there's a real concentration. That's a red flag like those hospice providers in California.

Like the Quality Learing Center and the other daycares in Minneapolis and so forth. I mean, this repeats itself some of the same sorts of businesses, some different, but all on the public roles with respect to benefits. And this is something you could do if you were a governor, what Ron DeSantis is doing. Rather than, you know, sluff it off or it's not my fault. You identified something that we didn't see? Great. Let's do it together. And let's build on what you're doing. And I'll do what I can do at the state level. Brilliant. Good. Great. I don't think that's too much to ask. And it, frankly, should be what people expect. You think you're going to get that with J.B. Pritzker in Illinois? But this is an opportunity to put J.B. Pritzker on the dime. And the rest of the power structure, Ashley Moody, I mentioned, Senator from Florida, sponsored legislation, the Stop Fraud and Medicaid Act that gives state attorneys general the power to pursue and prosecute, not just providers, Medicaid providers, but the recipients who are actually committing fraud and looking to cheat the taxpayers. She said a lot of times our major challenges in fraud and crime not having enough investigators or prosecutors to really focus on and target these specific crimes. One of the ways you can amplify the efforts is you can have state AGs have their authority expanded and have those teams supplement the efforts. So there you go. Somebody can go ask Kwame Raul if he wants to join the anti-fraud task force. Let's get U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois. Let's get, and the other U.S. attorneys here, get Kwame Raul, let's have support over the top, and let's root out fraud. Who's opposed to that? Maybe that's something Darren Bailey should propose. If I was a governor of Illinois, I'd be doing here what Ron DeSantis is doing in coordination with the federal government there because it's not about partisan affiliation. It's about rooting out fraud. So the people, the programs are intended to serve, actually get served with quality services. And we stop spending beyond our means, particularly in Illinois, where the biggest line item in the state budget is Medicaid. with nearly, I think it's probably more now, but it used to be nearly one in three Illinoisans on the Medicaid rolls. Unsustainable. You want to talk about a huge target. And all it takes is a couple of independent, motivated 20-something kids like Nick Shirley with an iPhone and some political leadership to provide direction.

Mary Kay and Oak Brook. Oh, Oakbrook. Oh, hi. Yeah, I know. I live in Oak Brooktown. Yeah. Well, it's much nicer over here, I have to say. I'm really glad I left Western Springs and got away from. Well, you know, not everyone. Are you? Are you? No, no, that's true. Are you a regular at Gibson's there now? No, we go to Capitol Grill. Oh, of course. Sure, of course. More sophisticated. Less of that unsavory element. But anyway, go ahead. It's quieter over there. Yeah. Well, you got your millions and billions mixed up there. And you know what? It's so funny to me is it's so easy to do. It's so easy to do. What was the fraud in Minnesota? I've already forgotten. Is it 80 billion? Is that what they're accused of? I think the... The range was like $9 to $20 billion. No, I got my billions and trillions confused. I'm way past millions. I was a $5 trillion in unemployment insurance fund. No, it was billion. But, yeah. But I mean, right. But here's the thing. I would just start to interrupt me. I wanted to get this thing because I must forgot. So it is. It is easy. These numbers don't mean anything because they're so astronomical. But so part of this interdiction of fraud needs to be the visuals. videos of these outfits, the concentration of these phony bologna businesses at a singular office building, the quality leering center moment, you're going to get those moments and you need to have those moments because that's the way people actually pay attention and process it. If you just say, we stop $3 billion in fraudulent payments to these 150. home health care providers, it just, it's, it comes and goes. You need the visual to help tell the story. So that's something, that's something that I, I would encourage. campaigns as well as the public officials, Oz and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. and Jimmy Comer and everybody. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I'm not playing as much golf as you. So, I mean, golf is very important. You know, I mean, it's a warm up here. I need new clubs. I was always curious. What kind of clubs do you hit? Can you say? Yeah. What's your brand? I use the sub 70. It's sub 70 is a club maker out of northeastern Illinois. It's in Sycamore. Okay. I'm in the market, Sycamore. The way I describe them, and I don't know if they'll like this characterization, but like a poor man's PXG, except I think it's actually. Yeah, that's what I like. I think it's actually a better club, and it's about one-fifth of the price. But it's this great operation in Sycamore. You go up there and get fitted for it. My friend Tom Meredith turned me on to them. And it's starting to gain in popularity. I know there's a couple guys on the Corn Fury now playing the sub-70s. And it's a really nice iron. I like it. If I didn't play the sub-70s, I mean, I'm going to prattle on about this for an hour now. Thanks, Mary Kaye. Okay. That's okay. Thank you. If I didn't play the sub-70s, I recommend the titleless team.

T-150s. But anyway. Kind of Listic 150. Well, you know, I hit ping orange dots that I had made for me back in like the 90s, but I can still hit them in their senior flex steel shaft. There you go. Yeah, I'm still doing it. But I'm going to go get some clubs that are easier to hit so I can score and beat my sister who was down there in old Florida who shot a 79 the other day on your board. Oh, that's very good. I see her in E.J. all the time. Yeah, well, they're great. And, you know, we love them. She just doesn't invite us down often enough. That's a problem. Yeah, we don't get to Naples. I'll pass the word. I'll pass the word. Thanks for the call, Mary Kay. And then after we get done golfing, then we'll interdict all this benefits fraud. You know, got to have some time for play as well as work. Jerry, Milwaukee. Yeah, morning, Dan. Therein lies the problem. You talk about the fraud, and then you're dumb it down talking about golf. But here's it'll make me happy. Here's it'll make me happy. When I see all these people who are, you know, pleading guilty in Minnesota, when I see them all hurt it into a jail cell, that's when I'm going to be happy. I don't know what's happening. These people are pleading guilty? Are they receiving any penalties? Well, thanks for the call, I mean, you know, the feeding our future scandal and prosecutions in Minneapolis are resulting in jail time and I think some restitution in the form of recovered monies. But. I'm sure that's relatively a small percentage. So some of that is happening. But no, you're right. We need to see a lot more of it. But so at the same token, I want to be patient but impatient. This is just getting off the ground. This is a lot to get your arms around. You know, go sort of for the low-hanging fruit and start piling up victories. and just continue, you know, oil spot techniques, start from a position of strength in terms of the evidence, the evidence, and then radiate out from there. And so I'm patient, but I'm impatient. I think that's what we should be. Marie and Winneka. Yes, good morning, Dan. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Good to be back. Okay, so this is in regards to a family member of mine, to which I was the power of attorney. The individual was not able to move, end of life, and at a Medicaid nursing home. So it was a regular nursing home, but they had some Medicaid beds, and they kept telling me and billing me for Medicaid services related to hospice people that never did make visits to her. So, for instance, they said she needed P-T, O-T, this, that. She was immobile. And they said they were exercising her, doing this, doing that. And my aunt was otherwise lucid. And she said, Marie, they were not here. There was nobody here. I came there on days where they said they would be there. They weren't there.

And the bill that they were putting forth was somewhere around $10,000 a month. Yeah. And he called the hospice. And I said we haven't seen these people. They would show up no more than once every three weeks. And then even after her death, they went after the family for the rest of it, even though it was Medicaid and she had been personally bankrupted. So that's the experience that we had. Thanks so much for the call, Marie. I mean, that's not dissimilar to some of the stories we saw profiled in that CBS expose on hospice providers and the fraud that's being committed in California. I mean, so like I said, whatever scams are running in California, you should be, you can rest assured that the scammers, whatever percentage of some of these providers and some of these different business sectors, you can be sure the same scams are being run in Illinois and New York and Maryland around the country. So I said, big job, start piling up the winds as quickly as you can. The stories you need to know to start your day. This is Chicago's morning answer on AM 560, the answer. This is Chicago's morning answer with Dan Proft on AM 560, the answer.

Top of the morning, Dan Proptier. House Speaker Mike Johnson at an NRCC event offered the following comments on the murder of Sheridan Gorman and Chicago and Illinois more generally. You take the life of Sheridan Gorman. The irony of all this is that the system did not fail, Sheridan. That worked exactly as the Democrats intended. You had Democrats in charge of the White House and in charge in the city of Chicago. Open borders policies, sanctuary cities policies. They coddled the criminal illegal alien. They empowered. They allowed this to happen. And that's why we're so angry about it. He was in the custody of law enforcement twice. And there were two chances to stop Sheridan's killer. But Democrats open borders guaranteed their release and their soft on crime sanctuary policies ensured his impunity. And that's why this happened. And Sheridan Gorman. Yeah, that is why it happened. And that's not just me saying it. By the way, Mike Johnson's comments, the system didn't fail. It produced exactly what those in charge wanted to produce. Sounds very similar to what a great man once said about Illinois, which is that Illinois isn't broken. It's fixed. Ray Lopez also agrees, Alderman Ray Lopez, on Fox yesterday saying that J.B. Pritzker and down the line, the men and women in leadership of his party. bear the responsibility for the consequences of the policy choices they made. What a concept. Well, he's absolutely blaming Donald Trump in list, and I'm not a rabid Trump supporter or a hater. But if you're going to blame the federal government, then blame it where this problem began, which was under the Biden-Harris administration that allowed 15 million people from South America, Central America, and across the oceans to come through our southern borders, manipulate asylum, be poorly vetted, and then scattered... to the seven wins of the United States. That's where this problem started. And I have yet to hear a single Democrat hold Biden and Harris accountable for what has happened. Because they knew who they were allowing in. They have their information. They vetted them poorly and still let them go even when they were criminals. And to say it's Donald's Trump. Donald Trump's fault simply because we refuse to work with them to go after those high priority targets. There are 2,000 priority targets in the city of Chicago right now who we know our dangers, courtesy of the Biden-Harris administration that vetted them, but we will not allow the Trump administration to remove them simply because we don't want to look as that we're capitulating to him. Here's something else in enterprising political candidate, political party could do. Get their hands on that list of 2,000 priorities. that he referenced. I mean, not that ICE would want to release it when they're outstanding because they can't get cooperation. In fact, they get interference from both the political authorities and all the professional agitators that they finance, as we saw, play out during Operation Midway Blitz. But, I mean, if, and, you know, in ICE operations can still be going on quietly.

But boy, oh boy, it would be nice, just as we talked about with the worst of the worst list. Once you apprehend these people, you have to profile them. You have to distribute the information. So we know, everybody knows, who wants to know, at least, that when J.B. Pritzker says, you come for my people, you come through me, these are the predators he's talking about. But he can't be bothered. J.B. Pritzker can't be bothered to say that, of course, because he's focused on running for president. And he's focused on what he's going to do as president, his Project 2029 Project, Project 2029 initiative, which I should just, which I should say, which of course is focused on picking up on the lawfare that was a feature of the Biden-Harris regime and scaling it. going after Trump officials, certainly I'm sure ICE officials. That's not me saying it again. That's J.B. Pritzker in his own words on Lulu Garcia Navarro's podcast. What does a project 2029 agenda look like? for you. I don't think you can speak of it in shorthand, but I'll just say a couple of things that I think are absolutely necessary. One is we've got to restore the rule of law, and that means holding people accountable who've broken the law and talking about in this administration, when we get a new one, the people in this administration who've broken the law. And federal agents who've broken the law need to be held accountable. And that means criminally prosecuted. criminally prosecuted, civilly prosecuted, whatever it is that we can do, right? It may be that you can't criminally prosecute somebody, but that you can go after them civilly. Boy, restoring the rule of law. That's going to be a feature of J.B. Pritzker's campaign for president, is it? How about that? How about listening to somebody prattel on about restoring the rule of law while presiding over a state? that routinely sees people who play by the rules and do follow the law, exploited, murdered by people who don't, by people who don't who are given chance after chance after chance turned out over and over and over again, only to light somebody on fire on the L. Or people who are in this country illegally residing in Chicago who are protected by J.B. Pritzker. who kill Katie Abraham in Champaign or Sheridan Gorman in Rogers Park. For more on this, pleased to be joined by former Chicago Police Chief, Chief Johnson. Chief Johnson, thanks for joining us again. Appreciate it. Oh, a lot of problems, Dan. How are you doing today? Good, good. Great to speak with you again. So... The thing that Ray Lopez said about 2,000 high priority targets that local authorities know, that ICE certainly knows.

It reminds me of what you said years ago, which we've talked about when you talk about the repeat violent offenders in Chicago. And it's a couple of thousand people. We know who they are. And they need to be removed from the streets because they're responsible for a preponderance of the violent crime. And we could put a real dent in violent crime if we just... impose the sorts of punishments that need to be imposed on habitual offenders. And so many years since you've said that, we seem to be in the same place. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you, here's the thing. We can't pick and choose what laws we want to enforce. If we don't like the law, then we need to change it. And the simple fact of the matter is, Crossing the border illegally is a crime in this country. And, you know, listen, I don't particularly like the tactics of ICE agents that they're using now. However, I will say this. The border crossing seemed to have slowed down. We do need immigration agents. You know, while I was superintendent, I spoke to the heads of the federal agencies at least once a week. And sometimes when ICE was conducting things in the city, I would speak to them almost on a daily basis. And it was much quieter than because the tactics that they used didn't appear to be so abusive. But having said that. When, in my opinion, when we have illegal immigrants in this country and we come into contact with them as law enforcement, then we should create a mechanism to where the federal agents can just pick them up. Because I don't like the fact that we have anyone in this country committing crimes on top of the fact that they might be illegal immigrants. Now, you know, I talk to people a lot about this. If there's someone in the country illegally that has been here five and ten years and have been an, you know, upstanding citizen and providing for their families, then we need to make a pathway for those people to stay. But, look, the illegal immigrant thing, that is a thing, and it should be enforced, in my opinion. Well, here's what you said about providing, if we're not going to formally cooperate with federal law enforcement because of the civilian political leadership here, then the least we can do is provide a pathway for the federal law enforcement to do their job. I mean, that's... That's the eminently reasonable position that actually is the position of the Trump administration. And Tom Homan has been saying that till he's blue in the face for years going back to the first Trump administration. Let us in the jails honor our detainer request. You don't have to do anything. But don't actively impede the effort. Don't force us into the neighborhoods by releasing people that we have detainers on. So I mean, for all of the complaining about tactics, you've put these ICE agents.

in a much more difficult position than they were when you were police chief because, number one, the list of high-party targets has grown exponentially over the last four years until this administration. And two, you have people that are actively impeding ICE. I mean, even to the extent of that Milwaukee judge who was convicted of aiding and abetting an illegal immigrants. flight from a courthouse. That's the sort of attitude you're dealing with. And obviously that makes the job of federal immigration law enforcement much, much more difficult. It does. And that's, to me, as a former law enforcement officer and top official, that's ridiculous to me. If they're illegal, then the least we can do is create a path to where they don't have to go out in the neighborhood and we see some of the chaos we do. And I do believe we can do a better job in the training of ICE agents because when I see things going on, it's obvious to me that they're under-trained because they act more off of emotions. than trained. But at the same time, we've got to take some accountability, too, as a city. And if people are illegally here and they come in contact with CPD for some reason, we have them in custody, it's just common sense that it's easier to just turn them over to the federal agents and then, you know, whatever happens after that happens. But to actively impede illegal processes of the border here. It's just ridiculous to me. Yeah, although, I mean, again, I'm not, you know, giving a, you know, categorical absolution for everything every ice agent has done. But, I mean, but it's not just impeding. You have, you know, professional agitators paid by NGOs or those that just make this their raison dutra for existence, I guess. I mean, that have committed acts of violence again, and we've seen this against Chicago police too, acts of violence against ICE agents, ramming cars and throwing things that are dangerous and physical altercations. I mean, we saw chaos. Over the weekend at, or last night, over at State Michigan Avenue where police were way outnumbered by kids engaged, young people engage in one of these wilding things. And you've got people being trampled, people on the ground, Chicago police are trying to get a handle on it. This is nothing new, but it happened again. And I mean, in those sort of chaotic situations where you have general lawlessness. You know, it's hard to always keep it together when you're when you're under manned. And all the way, and also, too, when you put out like a call for assistance as happened, you know, during Operation Midway Blitz and Chicago police say we're not responding, that was a pretty bad moment, too. We're standing down. Yeah, I tell you, Dan, while I was superintendent, one thing that I ensured was listen.

Federal agents are still citizens of this city. And, you know, we did have a sanctuary ordinance then where we weren't supposed to assist them. And that's fine. But I'm not going to have the department stand down if anyone calls for assistance, and that includes federal agents, you know, because then you run the risk of either side getting hurt. And to me, that's just not a mission. Law enforcement should engage in, you know. I think we just have to – here's a problem, Dan. From the very beginning of this with the Trump administration especially, we've made this – we've made law enforcement activities political, and they should not be. Either you broke the law or you didn't. If you didn't, then your relief is going to court and prove your case. But we should not be making a political football in putting either Chicago police officers or federal agents in the middle of all this nonsense. It's as simple as this to me. Either you broke the law or you didn't. And if you did, then you have to suffer the consequence of it, whatever that consequence is in the court system. What about, I mean, domestically and the habitual offenders domestically, we still have a problem there. I don't know what your assessment of the new Cook County State's attorney is or the new chief judge. But, I mean, we still see the same things occurring that occurred under Fox and Lightfoot are occurring and Evans are occurring now. We had, well, we had a firefighter. killed by, you know, a meth had a multiple time loser. Just for example, we continue to see violence on a daily basis, serious violence on a daily basis on CTA, despite the, you know, new security plan to try to get federal transportation funds that were being withheld. I mean... We have this problem on the domestic side of this discussion, too, that persists. Yeah, and let me be quite clear, Dan, most of our crime issues in the city of Chicago are homegrown driven. Let's not mince words with that. We have more of a domestic issue than we do, an immigration issue in terms of crime here, whatever type of crime we're talking about. However, so this is what I'm saying. Talking to the cops on the street, it's gotten a little better in their minds, but... still, it's not where it was like, let's say, when I was back there as superintendent in terms of the state attorney's office and CPD working together. Because, listen, here's the bottom line. If you want people to desist in the activities that they're conducting, then there has to be a solid consequence. You know, I used to tell people all the time. It's not the length of consequence that criminals worry about. It's the certainty of a consequence.

That's why they don't go out to DePage County and Lake County committing the same crimes that they do here in Cook County because they know there's less accountability in Cook County, which is sad because the people that are getting punished are the very people that officials pled to protect. And I just don't understand how we've gotten in this bucket. Well, you know, there's been a lot of discussion of violence interruptors. That's part of the new security plan, and it was part of the old security plan, too, some discussion about exactly how effective those are. But we've got, according to a report out this week, the most violent transit system, public transit system of any major city in the country. We also have the most violent city of any major city in the country. But what is your... perspective on sort of this hybrid of more cops on the platforms plus some violence interrupters. Why don't we just hire more cops, particularly if we're still down 1,500 or 2,000, like the number I keep hearing. Why don't we just have more trained police and put more presence on trains and, you know, almost like air marshals on planes? You never know where the cop's going to be, but there's going to be a presence. Why don't we just do that? Well, that's what we should do, in my opinion. So the issue of the violence interrupted, it really makes me laugh when I hear people taking credit for the reduction of crime because of violence interrupt us. First of all, how do you quantify what they really do? The answer is you can't. You know, it's easy for them to say, well, we were out in Englewood, and now you see crime is down because of us. Now, that's a load of crap, in my opinion. Now, don't get me wrong, there may be instances where they do help. But if you really want to see a tangible difference in the reduction of crime, then you need to hire more police officers, let them work with the citizens in those community members. in those communities because that's the way that you get crime down. Now, the programs that are implemented will help at some point, but those are long-term goals. If you want to see short-term fixes to reducing crimes, then you have to have more cops out there doing what they do and working with the community people at the same time. And on the other side of that, even if you had cops doing what they're supposed to do and prosecutors doing what they're supposed to do and judges doing what they're supposed to do, even if you had that in Illinois, you still have the Safety Act. Should that be repealed? Yeah, you know, if not repealed, it needs to be reworked because that just, I tell you, Dan, it's frustrating for me as a 31-year cop to try and figure out when the offenders of these crimes, the perpetrators of these crimes, have more rights than the victims. That's ridiculous. Who's out here standing up for the victims of these crimes?

We, you know, we've gone too far left with this thing, and we need to bring it more back to the center and hold people accountable. Eddie Johnson, former Chicago Police Superintendent, Superintendent Johnson, thanks, as always. Appreciate your time. Thank you and have a great day. You too, and Eddie Johnson joined us on Chicago's Morning Answer. The more you listen, the more you'll know. This is Chicago's Morning Answer. Morning Answer on AM 560, The Answer. If you're looking for the latest news, insight into what it means, and the sharpest opinion. There's only one station in Chicago where you can turn, and it's this one. We're AM 560. The answer. Top of the morning, Jan Proff, here. Interesting to take stock of the majority Muslim countries that are supporting the United States, the combined United States and Israeli efforts against the Iranians. For example, the Emirates are really standing up to Iran. Their foreign minister, or excuse me, their minister of state was on with Brett Baer yesterday, and she said this. Do you think the calls for the Gulf Arab allies, including the UAE, to get involved kinetically in the war, are fair? The UAE has fought side by side with the United States and over six coalitions in our history. We have shared values. We have shared history with the United States. We have interoperability with the United States. They are a clear partner to us in regional security, and we intend to double down on that. Today... We are looking at a threat to not only our region but to the international community at large that needs to be stopped in whatever way possible. The UAE is always for a diplomatic off-ramp at the end of that. We need to use diplomacy. But we need to use diplomacy when Iran understands that its behavior as a rogue actor is not acceptable neither to the region nor to the international community. Part of the coalition of the willing that has come together to assist with the... opening of the Strait of Hormuz, UAE. Now, for a contrary perspective, another majority Muslim country, I think it's majority Muslim now, called Britain. It's a little bit of a joke. You probably saw the meme a couple weeks back. The Muslim countries supporting the United States and Israel, you know, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, so on and so forth. The majority of Muslim countries not supporting the Americans and the Israelis, Britain, France, Spain. A little NATO humor there. Sir, Alex Younger, is a former head of MI6. In an interview with the economist, He said the reality is the U.S. underestimated the task, and I think as about two weeks ago, lost the initiative to Iran. In practice, the Iranian regime has been more resilient than I think anyone would have expected. Really? He goes on to say they've embarked on what's technically called horizontal escalation, firing rockets at anybody within range, which at the time I thought was nuts, but in fact it has been a very good way of putting an indirect price on the U.S.

It sort of worked. They've also understood the significance of the energy war and how the straits at threat, essentially globalizing the conflict in a way that gives them some leverage. So they've played a weak hand pretty well. Have they? Those indiscriminate strikes, horizontal escalation, have rallied the Gulf states closer to the Americans and the Israelis. Have they not? At the same time, Sir Alex Younger, head of Britain's former head of Britain's Intel service, semi-sex. I think they're in their death throws. But the irony is the biggest threat to them is peace, not war. And he points to the January uprising as... evidence of how precarious the regime, whatever it looks like now, whatever, how precarious it is, whatever staying power it has. But, I mean, that whole characterization of underestimating the threat and Iran being surprisingly resilient, I think we've heard most experts suggest that in point of fact, the retaliatory capacity. of the regime in Tehran has been decidedly underwhelming and in part because the performance of the American military, the combined efforts of the American and the Israeli military, has been overwhelmingly impressive. And Admiral Bradley Cooper gave us another update on where things stand from a military perspective. Our precision strikes have overwhelmed Iranian air defenses, and our combat flights over Iran are having tangible effects. Here are a few examples. For decades, Iranian warships have roamed regional waters, threatening and harassing global shipping. But those days are over because we've now destroyed 92% of the Iranian Navy's largest vessels. They are not sailing. And my operational assessment is that they've now lost the ability to meaningfully project naval power and influence around the region and around the world. And with respect to drone and missile strikes, as well as the production capacity to replace what has been destroyed? As we've highlighted previously, Iran's drone and missile launch rates are down by more than 90%, meaning their ability to attack American forces and regional neighbors is drastically reduced. And not only have we significantly degraded Iran's naval drone and missile capabilities, we've also removed the regime's ability to rebuild them. Before Operation Epic Fury, Iran had large-scale manufacturing capacities to not only build naval vessels, missiles and attack drones, but also to advance and proliferate these technologies to regional and global bad actors. Today, we have damaged or destroyed over two-thirds of Iran's missile, drone, and naval production facilities and shipyards, and we're not done yet.

For more on this, please be joined by John Bolton, former assistant to the president for National Security Affairs, author of The Room Where It Happened, a White House memoir. John Bolton, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Glad to be with you. Thanks for having me. So can you adjudicate this dispute in characterizations of where things stand, per the Britain's former MI6 guy? Have we lost the initiative to Iran at this point? Well, I don't think in military terms we have. I think the planning has gone well. I think there are some mistakes that have been made that were in the process of correcting. But one thing is clear. This threat to the Strait of Hormuz was something that everybody appreciated before. Everybody understood it was a potential threat. And so the slowness in responding to it is troubling, but it's not like anybody didn't see it before. And it's one reason, in my view, why. The objective of all this ought to be removing the regime in Tehran. They can come back and close the straight any time they want, and that's like the nuclear threat or the terrorism threat, not a threat we or our allies should live under. Well, the slowness and the response, what should have been the rapid response? What should that have looked like? Well, I think it's fair to ask why, along with eliminating Iran's ballistic missile retaliatory capacity at the beginning, we weren't involved in eliminating Iran's mine layer fleet and the other ways they can lay mines by drones, by fastboats, and so on, and going after their anti-ship weapons and other capabilities that would threaten tankers transiting the Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz. I think this was entirely foreseeable. It was discussed back in Trump's first term, and as were attacks on the Gulf Arab state. So that was sort of baked in once we make the decision to attack. And so where things stand now with this, as I mentioned, coalition of the willing that wants to support the American-Israeli efforts to reopen the straight as talks are going on in whatever form or fashion. I don't know, obviously, but the word doesn't seem to be very positive coming out of those discussions, however they're occurring. What about that coalition that's been put together and your assessment on how successful that could be to reopening the straight and perhaps dealing that final blow to the regime that's currently constituted? Well, I think the Saudis and the Emirates in particular among the Gulf Arab states are very clear. They don't use the words regime change, but that's the only thing that could lead to real safety for them and security that they could get their oil production into international commerce without interruption. And the last thing I think the U.S. should do, notwithstanding all the destruction of...

Iran's Revolutionary Guard and Navy and Air Force and other capabilities that we've achieved. You don't want to leave a wounded regime still in power in Tehran, which if commerce and oil resumes, they'll use the proceeds from that to rebuild their nuclear program, rebuild their ballistic missile program, rebuild their terrorist capabilities, and rebuild their ability to close the Strait of Hormuz. And in some finite period of time, we'll be right back where we are now. The only way to get peace and stability in the Middle East, and in the Gulf in particular, is to get a regime in Iran that's willing to compete with its neighbors. oil and gas markets and not pursue these extremist fanatical, even religious objectives they have since they took power in 1979. So if that required, for example, special ops by the 82nd Airborne to try to finish off whatever is left of the regime, that's something you believe we should do? Well, I think we ought to contemplate it. I think we ought to threaten it, whether we ought to do it or not. I don't know. We ought to worry the regime in Tehran that these things are possible. I think the best way to accomplish regime change is to keep doing what we're doing, which is destabilizing the regime by destroying the instruments of Iranian state power that threaten us or threaten its own people. And that instability shows the regime can't protect itself and says to everybody in Iran, it can't protect itself, which leads inevitably to the conclusion the regime cannot endure. And the only other thing I'd say, which is very important, is we should be helping the opposition inside Iran, providing them with resources, money, communications, weapons, whatever they need, so that they can put pressure domestically. That's why a lot of boots on the ground. are not going to be necessary if we follow through. And I understand all the reasons people don't want to get involved in land operations. Well, fine. The regime is very unpopular. It's never been weaker. We can see how desperate it was by the barbaric measures they took against their own people back in January. But the level of opposition is still just as high. Do we have, I mean, is it your belief that we have a sense of who the viable opposition is that we should be providing material support to? Well, the opposition is widespread, but not well organized. That's part of the problem. I think if they had more resources and they knew that people outside were trying to help them, they'd be more effective. There are elements inside that I think are pretty well organized. That starts with the Kurds. The ethnic minority makes up about 10% of Iran's population, but works closely with fellow Kurds in Iraq and Turkey and elsewhere.

So I think helping them, giving them arms with something contemplated at the beginning, but the administration decided not to follow through on. I would go ahead and do it. I think anything that puts pressure on the Revolutionary Guard and the Ayatollahs hastens the day and increases the odds, the regime will fragment at the top and come apart. The prospect that, you know, that you've heard this, the way we can have like a Delsey Rodriguez here, essentially a placeholder that we think we can work constructively with until the opportunity presents itself for a more permanent and better outcome in terms of the head of state. Is that, do you, I mean, with what you know about this region and the players. Do you see that person there? Is this guy Gallabath, the former mayor of Tehran who was profiled this week? Is that potentially somebody who could or would play that role that we could see as a short-term solution? No, I don't think there's any fundamental difference in ideology, and that's what we're talking about here. This is a fanatical religious ideology that affects their domestic policy, affects their view on the rest of the world, and you've got to go very deep before you find people who are not adherence to that ideology, which is why the alternative centers of power are likely to be in the regular army, which is not the Revolutionary Guard, but the regular army. They're not sort of our kinds of people from the get-go, but compared to the Revolutionary Guard, compared to the Ayatollahs and the Islamic Revolution, it would be a world of difference. And that could give us an opportunity for Iranians themselves to figure out what kind of government they want next. But right now, the Revolutionary Guard and the Ayatollahs are still controlling things. And for, I mean, you sort of... intimated your position earlier in our discussion. But let me just lay it out anyway. For those in, you know, the Republican ranks, including Josh Hawley, David Sachs, others, who have said, you know, now is the time. or maybe as soon as the strait has reopened, to declare victory and wrap it up. And even if we can't get the regime change that we wanted, we have neutralized Iran with respect to their nuclear program and ballistic missile program and their ability to sponsor proxies, terrorist proxies around the region and around the world, such that it will be a generation before they can recover. And at least we have pushed out. their capacity for what they, the sponsorship of terrorism that has punctuated the last 50 years, at least we've pushed that out a generation. What do you say to that?

That's simply not true. If they're able to sell oil again, they will have enormous revenues. They can turn back to terrorism, back to their nuclear program. Look, we had the 12-day war against the nuclear program last summer. They've already started to build back and continue their work toward getting nuclear weapons. They're fanatics. They're determined to do it. And this is not a regime. that is going to abandon its ideology. They believe that the fact we're so opposed to them shows that they're right. The only long-term way to get peace and stability in the Middle East is for this regime in Iran to be overthrown, period. John Bolton, former assistant to the president for National Security Affairs, author of The Room Where It Happened, a White House memoir. John Bolton, thanks for joining us again. Appreciate it. Well, thanks again for having me. And he joins us on Chicago's Morning Answer. It's like a hot steaming cup of information. To start your day, it's Chicago's Morning Answer on AM 560, The Answer. This is Chicago's Morning Answer with Dan Proft on AM 560, The Answer.

Top of the morning, Dan Proft here. We've referenced this interview on this program before, but perhaps it warrants a revisiting. I'm talking about an interview that KGBB agent turned journalist turned Soviet defector. Yuri Besmanoff gave in 1984, the appropriate year in 1984. Warning to America. about the Soviet's angles to affect ideological subversion and ultimately destabilization of, particularly America. And the question, as you listen to some of what Besmanov had to say is, in 2026, are we doing to ourselves? what he warned us, the Soviets were doing to us some four decades ago. Besmanoff on ideological subversion. Ideological subversion is the slow process, which we call either ideological subversion or active measures, actively merrippiattia in the language of the KGB, or psychological warfare. What it basically means is to change the perception of reality of every American. To such an extent that despite of the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country. It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and it's divided in four basic stages. And the four basic stages, demoralization, which we actually talked a little bit about earlier in the program. They're actively mocking you, telling you things that are so clearly untrue and doing so with impunity to demoralize you, to submit to the state. Stage two is destabilization. stages three and four, crisis and normalization. And after crisis, with a violent change of power, structure, and economy, you have so-called the period of normalization. It may lost indefinitely. Normalization is a cynical expression borrowed from Soviet propaganda. When the Soviet tanks moved into Czechoslovakia in 68, Comrade Brezhnev said, now the situation in brotherly Czechoslovakia is normalized. This is what will happen in the United States if you allow all the schmucks to bring the country to crisis, to promise people all kinds of goodies and the paradise on earth, to destabilize your economy, to eliminate the principle of free market competition, and to put a big brother government in Washington, D.C., with benevolent dictators like Walter Mondale. who will promise lots of things, never mind whether the promises are fulfillable or not. Boy, Walter Mondale was a Hasan Piker by today's standards. But the point about crisis in quotation marks, and what have we seen over the last, I mean, some time, but really increased in pace in the last decade, careening from one moral panic to the other. Crisis to normalization. And the normalization under Biden and Harris was what?

The citizen and the non-citizen are indistinguishable. Open borders. Men can be women. Women can be men. Men can get pregnant. I mean, there's so many examples, but you get the point. Our next guest, Jacob Siegel, has a new book out that Michael Lind, who... As you know, I very much enjoy academic down Texas. Jacob Siegel shows how the emancipatory promise of the Internet has given way to a chilling reality of government by algorithm and the emergence of a quote-unquote digital Leviathan that threatens liberty and democracy alike. Hmm. It seems like maybe Jacob Siegel is in part channeling Uri Besmanoff. Pleased to be joined by Jacob Siegel. Again, the book is The Information State. Jacob is the editor for Tablet Magazine and a co-host of Manifesto, a podcast. Jacob, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Thanks for Dennis. Thanks, Dan. It's great to be back. And so, I mean, does what Besmanov was talking about in the 80s have some resonance with you today and such that we've obviously taken it to or have the capacity, if you don't believe it, have the capacity to take it to new heights in the digital age, the internet now giving way to AI? Oh, yeah. It resonates tremendously. And I think the key difference in the current situation is that we have the Internet to now mass produce these crises on a scale and an intensity and at a pace that simply didn't exist in the 1980s. So you no longer need to put in the kind of capacity. to be building over years to generate a new crisis or a new propaganda operation. The digital infrastructure allows the mass production of these crises, and then equally it allows for censorship of anyone who is attempting to point out the kind of, you know, the false nature of the crisis can be censored. So it's just... It is a degree of change that I think marks a more radical threat than the one he described, but that shares many commonalities. And what for you, I guess, in the digital age over the last, say, 25 to 30 years, was the watershed moment, or is the watershed moment occurring right now? I think the watershed moment was the creation of a kind of quasi-private surveillance empire after the war on terror. So what ended up happening after 2001 was that the Internet, which was originally developed as a Pentagon technology, was originally developed as a military technology.

was then spun off into the commercial privatized version of the internet that we're all familiar with and really took off as the commercial internet in 1990s. was reabsorbed partially back under the state after 2001, in part for what are, you know, I think quite understandable reasons related to national security, but in a way that had very destructive consequences. And what it meant essentially was that surveillance activities that could not be performed by the state itself, because they were unconstitutional, could not be outsourced to this. quasi-private surveillance wing of the state, which was the nominally private entities of the internet, you know, the telecoms, the social media companies, et cetera. And that really set the stage, I think, for everything that's followed. And so this is, I mean, what you're talking about, sort of perhaps coalesced most... obviously during the Obama years and also during the Biden years too with COVID. But I mean, so it started to coalesce during the Obama years and then it was extended into the Biden years when you have these third party actors, social media platforms, these sort of phony baloney fact-checking organizations and news filtering organizations. doing to the people what the government couldn't legitimately do, which was, of course, ultimately wound up in a Supreme Court case, Murthy v. Missouri, which was decided poorly, in my view, majority opinion, of course, by. Amy Coney Barrett. But is that the moment you're talking about those third party actors, that that's a good example of it, how people were treated, and maybe most recently in memory, when COVID orthodoxy was enforced? Right, exactly. So that's the fat middle section of my book, the information state politics in the age of total control, is about how the Obama presidency took this. private public infrastructure that had started to be developed immediately after the war on terror, but in the Bush years was still connected to the war effort, right? So it was still operating under a kind of state of exception related to terrorism, related to an ongoing foreign war. That infrastructure, that surveillance infrastructure, was then turned into an official routine wing of the government effectively. during the Obama years. So Obama took that pre-existing digital infrastructure, both for doing mass surveillance and for this kind of mass opinion formation and started to deploy it in ways that were related to, you know, the enforcement of civil rights.

law or, you know, equity determinations, ways that people were allowed to speak online, and use that same essential infrastructure to push through unpopular government policies, like, for instance, the Iran deal. You know, the one of the lead advisors, critical speechwriter for Obama, Ben Rhodes. developed this idea of what he called the echo chamber, which was a way of asking the surfing consensus on the internet. And he did that specifically for the Iran deal. All of that was then pushed into overdrive when Donald Trump's campaign proved successful and he got close to becoming president. And what Obama did was to create this pretext of fighting disinformation. that empowered a whole new suite of government agencies under the Department of Homeland Security, mostly, and set them up to be these domestic counter disinformation, censorship offices. And those are the very offices, as you mentioned, who were just rebuked, essentially, in this settlement in the Missouri v. Biden case, which now prohibits federal agencies from dictating. censorship and moderation policies to private social media company. Yeah, didn't go nearly far enough. And, you know, Amy Coney Barrett was very, I can only assume, purposefully naive in ascribing motivations to the government. But nonetheless, that Ben Rhodes, that was a piece he wrote in the Atlantic, wasn't it? That was a piece written about him in the Atlantic. Oh, about him in the Atlantic. Oh, about him in the Atlantic. Sorry, New York Times. Okay, okay. Yeah, but I remember that. That's, I've forgotten that, but that seems to me like that was a moment where we got actual disclosure because Rhodes was beating his chest about this echo chamber he created that, as you just said. And that's like, so this is what's afoot. We didn't, I don't know that enough of us ascribed the nefarious motivations or could. see a little bit down the road to say, well, this is how this is going to metastasize in ways that we're really not going to like that won't be limited to, you know, the Iran nuclear deal. They're going to use this as a beta test for doing it on all sorts of things where they want to, you know, compel a consensus, if you will. And that's precisely, that's precisely what happened. That disclosure turned out to be really foreshadowing. Yes, absolutely. And this is really what I'm trying to drive home in this book. And I agree with you that the settlement didn't go far enough. And I would even argue that much of the anti-censorship campaign, while necessary, itself doesn't go far enough. Because what Rhodes was drawing on when he described the creation of these echo chambers, which again is this sort of this way of mass. public opinion formation online through astroturfing consensus. That is, in a sense, built into the nature of the internet as it's now set up. And so simply pushing back against censorship by federal agencies or by social media companies, while it's necessary and important.

still leaves our basic constitutional rights vulnerable, in my opinion, to this kind of digital manipulation. Yeah, so what you're describing to something like Mike Benz, as the former cyber security expert who worked in Trump 1.0, the sort of the censorship industrial complex. And we were, it's been suggested that, you know, some of that was taken apart. Maybe some of the players and the, the orgs like that. you know, newsguard with former Intel officers and military people and the lab that was at Stanford University that was manipulative during a part of the manipulation during COVID and, and frankly, the election as well, 2020 election. But what is your sense about the strength of that censorship industrial complex if you accede to that characterization? Yeah, I think the characterization is accurate, and I think it's likely to reconstitute itself fairly quickly if a Democrat is elected in 2028. I don't think that it has been decisively dismantled, in part because we are all so dependent on the social media companies and on this digital hyper-connection to carry out the most basic activities of our lives. banking, you know, buying things, looking for love. Everything we do has some kind of online digital component. And the basic structures of our interactions online are still opaque. And because the nature of our digital society at this point remains opaque, it's still very susceptible to algorithmic manipulation and even to... larger scale efforts like the one we saw during the Russia Gate episode and during COVID, I think there have been some, there have been some good steps taken. But it's not inconceivable, hardly inconceivable. It's not even all of that difficult, I would wager, to begin to put this back together. For conservatives, you know, I mean, when you're talking about. censorship, censorship of views, you're not allowed to say something. You know, coming from a free minds, free markets perspective, what is your position, maybe perhaps a warning to conservatives to sort of not play the tit for tat game with those who would repress, use, you know, the power of the state or proxies for the state, social media companies sometimes, for example? to squelch descent. I mean, because there are particular issues or particular events where conservatives haven't always lived up to their stated small L liberal values when it comes to free thought and free speech. No, that's for sure. But just as a matter of self-interest.

Conservatives, I think, are aware of the fact that they're more likely to be on the receiving end of this than they are to be doling it out. So protecting the First Amendment, carving out the largest possible arena for open speech, for free voluntary association is really, it's not just a matter of principle. It's a matter of basic self-interest for conservatives if they want to be able to advance their own ideas and their own values. But what I would add to that is there is a legitimate need to balance that, to balance the fullest possible protection and expression of the First Amendment with a need to protect. national sovereignty. And what I mean by that is that if you set up the internet as a global communications infrastructure, it devalues national citizenship. If anyone from across the world can just jump into a conversation between Americans, we need borders. I think that conservatives understand the importance of borders. And I think that there are also digital borders that need to be protected. Not as an infringement on free speech, but as a basic precondition for the protection and exercise of free speech. Jacob Siegel is the editor for Tablet Magazine. He's the co-host of Manifesto, a podcast, his new book, which we've been discussing, The Information State. The Information State is the book. Jacob, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it. Great to be with you. Thanks. And good luck with the book. And Jacob joined us on Chicago's Morning Answer. There's only one radio show in Chicago talking about today's biggest stories and telling you what they really mean. That show is this one. Chicago's Morning Answer. On AM 560, The Answer. If you're looking for the latest news, insight into what it means, and the sharpest opinion, there's only one station in Chicago where you can turn, and it's this one. We're AM 560, The Answer. Top of the morning, Dan Proff here. We talked to Law and Order with former Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson earlier in the program. Part of that discussion was about violence interruptors, a term that is becoming an object of derision because if it's used by people like Brandon Johnson don't exactly inspire comparisons to...

politicians interested in law and order. But I think our next guest may have a more nuanced view of so-called violence interrupters, probably different terminology too. And I wanted to get that as well as pick up on the discussion we had earlier in the week about this most excellent piece he had in the Wall Street Journal on Jesse Jackson Sr., which has application well beyond Jesse Jackson Sr., well beyond the civil rights movement. And even, as I argued, to the conservative movement, the Illinois Republican Party, something that transcends race, geography, and partisan labels, the argument that Bob Woodson made. So I wanted to get more texture from him on that. So let's do it. Bob Woodson is the founder and president of the Woodson Center. He's also the author of A Pathway to American Renewal, Red, White, and Black, Volume 2. Bob, thanks for joining us again. Appreciate it. Always a pleasure, Darren. Always. So, you know, one of the reasons I thought you might have a more nuanced view of these so-called violence interruptors or maybe sort of non-law enforcement actors that are at the community level trying to increase the peace and help people escape poverty is because I've met so many of the Bob Witts and protégés who actually do substantive work and have a provable model. the data to support the model and so i just wanted to have that conversation with you get your perspective on it because I think most people, especially conservatives listening and you hear a politician say violence interruptors, you think, okay, this is just patronage work. This is just a way to funnel money to political supporters without doing anything particularly important. And why don't we just put more cops on the platforms of the CTA in Chicago or more cops in the streets and the neighborhoods in Chicago as opposed to these former reform gangbangers who are now supposedly do-gooders. and your perspective on all that? Well, first of all, I think we must distinguish between a definition of the approach. I believe that the best way to solve violence and that we've proved it is to support indigenous agents, grassroots leaders who are indigenous to the community. None of them were former predators, but it is important to distinguish how it's done. The way this program and what the city and others are doing is a distortion of their approach. And they don't make a distinction between a transformed individual. It's not a transaction. You can't pay people to be a healing agent.

And that's where it goes off. It's a transaction. What we do at the Woodson Center is we go into these communities. We never offer money as the incentive for change. We are young people through their personal, they model the values they want these young predators to follow. But there's no money involved in it. It is voluntary. First, if you transform somebody by modeling their kind of behavior, you want them to follow, which are your older guys do. When the people change, that's when they're eligible to receive job training and whatnot. But we never pay people to be peaceful. You reward people who have become peaceful. with a job, not a handout. Our young people, once they stepped over and became peacekeepers, they were giving full-time work. Some of them became plumbers, some of them became carpenters, others. So the way that the city is running it, it's a distortion of the, a perversion of what should be done. And I mean, I know you have myriad examples of this, but, and the one I use often, but it's hardly the only one is John Ponder and Hope for Prisoners out in Clark County, Nevada. But just an example that perhaps interested Chicagoans could actually research and maybe share with political leaders in terms of this is how you do it. Yeah, we have examples on our website. The Benning Terrace Mall is where we went into an area in Washington, D.C., called Benning Terrace. It was a public housing development of 53 murders in a 5-square-block area in two years because of these warring factions. Well, we trained five... Ex-offender group called the Alliance of Concern Men. These are young men who had moral authority and social trust of the young men, and they went in there and brought 16 of these warring factions together in my office. But money was not a part of it. There was a moral and a spiritual appeal, and it was only after these young men decided to put down their guns. Did we follow with employing them to clean up the very community that they destroyed? And for 12 years, we didn't have a single crew-related murder. But it never started with money. It never started with a bribe. They weren't paid to be peaceful. They were persuaded to... by following the example presented to them by these transformed former predators who became ambassadors of peace. So it's very different than what is being discussed. From your piece in the Wall Street Journal recently that I mentioned, I'm quoting here, morally weak people not only inhibit their own personal growth, but finally contribute to the politics of decadence.

A generation of people lacking the moral and physical stamina necessary to fight a protracted civilizational crisis is dangerous to itself, its neighbors, and to future generations. Those sound like the words of Bob Woodson, but in fact, they're the words of Jesse Jackson Sr. from a 1978 essay in Ebony that you referenced to talk about the rise and fall, if you will, of Jesse Jackson Sr. But, I mean, those words that Jesse Jackson, Sr. penned back then. and which are not dissimilar to the offerings you provide to this day, have great application. Application, as I said at the outset, beyond geography and race. And I just wanted you to sort of speak to Jesse Jackson, Sr. as perhaps a parallel to what's happened to America generally over that period of time. Yeah. I was a great supporter of Jesse during that time. I hosted him. It's on our host of him at the American Enterprise Institute. And it's called a conversation with Jesse Jackson. And Jesse Jackson was pro-life at that time. He described abortion as genocide in the black community. And he, and so Jesse was a moral force. And he said that the black people cannot get to the promised land by riding the donkey or the elephant. He said, But what happened is that moral center to his message he changed once he failed to follow his own advice and climbed on the donkey and became a partisan politician. And all of what he stood for, he abandoned it. And he became just another grievance merchant. When leaders like him, he then depended upon outrage and therefore any solutions. was a threat to the power. So Jesse changed when he became a politician and abandoned all of the advice and counsel he gave in terms of a moral responsibility and became a grievance merchant. And that's when he turned, and we had debates on meet the press. We had other, but Jesse could have been a force, a prophetic voice, but instead he chose grievance, as did others in Chicago. I talk about... One has to ask, is there a correlation between crime in the streets and crime in the streets? Because for 33 years, Chicago's second congressional district has been represented by three men, Gus Savage, Mel Reynolds, and Jesse Jackson, Jr. Two of them were sexual predators, and then Jesse Jackson went to jail for stealing campaign funds. But it was fascinating that...

They got reelected even though they were found guilty of these offenses. But no one cared about the victims. Mel Reynolds, for instance, his wife and children ended up living in poverty in Boston and public housing. But no one was concerned about her. And so it's moral, it's indifference. to the corrupt behavior. We turn away from the corrupt behavior of elected officials. So race becomes a shield against personal responsibility and accountability. And that's why these cities have been controlled by democratic administrations over 50 years. The political leaders have prospered, but the low-income people are the months who have suffered. You write in the piece, when leaders become dependent on outrage, solutions become threats to their power. Is that a commentary that you would apply across the political spectrum in America at present? Absolutely. And it's not just liberals who are engaging in grievance. There are some of my conservative colleagues who don't want this conflict to go away either because they can make money writing about and expressing outrage over what the left is doing. And that's why what I'm calling people of conscience to come together. and turn away from outrage and instead concentrate our efforts on solutions, resilience. And that's why what the Woodson Center is offering is an opportunity to come together and support healing agents that are in these communities that are moral healing agents. The crisis that we face today, we cannot vote our way out of this mess. It is a crisis of character that is consuming wealthy kids who are committing suicide in record numbers in places like Silicon Valley. Low-income whites in Appalachia, young people are destroying their lives through prescription drugs. And the leading cause of death among black youth is homicide. If you constantly bombard our young people with the proposition that they live in a country that hates them, that they're white, they're privileged and racist, and if you're black, you're a victim, well, maybe our kids are incorporating and accepting this definition of who they are, and if you devalue life. then it shouldn't surprise anyone that you will, that suicide and homicides are different sides of the same coin. It is a crisis and expectation of crisis, a moral and spiritual crisis, and we have to address that. But in order to do that, we must become post-racial.

By concentrating on race is preventing us from addressing that hold us in the hearts of our children that's causing them to devalue life. And the Woodson Center is promoting examples of how resilience and restoration among the people suffering the problem. They are models of how communities can be redeemed and restored, but we must invest in them, Dan. We must celebrate them. Maybe even more difficult than getting to post-racial is getting to post-political. You offer this comment in your piece. Social movements begin to decline when they trade moral authority for political access. Now, the keyword there is trade because I would argue that political access, you know, is the means to policy ends, right? That's what politicians are, the means to particular policy ends. So when you say social movements decline, when they trade moral authority for political access, I agree with you. And I think that distinction is lost on people. I think you have to play the political game in order to get resources in order to try to affect positive social change. And I just wanted you to address that. Yeah. Well, the question is, are you seeking political power to address the needs of those who are at the bottom? Or is it for self-aggrandizement? That's the point. You're achieving power to accomplish what and for whom? That's the challenge. Well, and the challenge, though, then the secondary challenge, which you've just addressed, is the idea that what sort of help are you going to provide by what means? And the easiest thing to do is say, I'm going to stand up another program or I'm going to add more resources to an existing program to wean people off the idea that politics is just the distribution of other people's money if you win. That seems to me like the real challenge. It really is. And that's why what the Woodson Center is doing with our publications and all. We have that there's a crisis in meaning and hope. And that's why what we offer from the past. When whites were at their worst, blacks were at their best. We had, and so it's important that people are motivated, Dan, to change when you give them images of victories that are possible. And so what we do by, we have an animation series that shows blacks who were born slaves who died millionaires. We had, and so we now have downloads of 10 million on YouTube have downloaded our animations. They're excellent, by the way. Yeah. Desperate for examples of moral excellence and character formation. And so what we must do is, and I'm looking to private sector investment.

to go into these communities where there's evidence of centers of redemption and transformation and provide the kind of personal, private support so that we can make these examples. They're like antibodies. The best way to cure the human body is to strengthen its own immune system. And these grassroots leaders... in these communities are the moral equivalent of healing agents or antibodies. The best way to cure the human body is to strengthen its own immune system. And so the best way to cure poverty and violence is go in and find agents of moral and spiritual renewal. and provide them with financial support so they can expand their influence and create an immune system in these communities. The way blacks used to do under segregation. Bob Woodson is the founder and president of the Woodson Center, author of A Pathway to American Renewal, Red, White and Black, Volume 2. Bob, thank you, as always for joining us. I always appreciate your insights. Thank you so much for having me. And Bob joined us on Chicago's Morning Answer. This is the morning show. More Chicago radio listeners are choosing. This is Chicago's Morning Answer. An AM 560, The Answer. Bob listened is just the best, isn't he? Let's end with another positive story. Mr. T. Yeah, he's still going strong. He's a Chicago and born in Chicago. He reunited with a kid who made his make-a-wish wish to be meeting Mr. T in 1986. This is now dude named Travis who incredibly survived, I think, a couple of bouts of cancer as a kid. And they reunited at a convention, Megacom. And it was a nice moment. That was crazy. This is powerful. The champ, man, and Murdard was more than my manager or whatnot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were ever sold about the mob, the mob guy. The original guy was going to take the dive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Dude, so good to see you again, brother. Man, no, man, you are. You are validation for me in a sense, and I tell people that's when my life changed. First, like I said, after I did, Rocky, the 18th, Mr. T, Mr. T. Then we started sitting playing and saying from the Make-A-Wish Foundation and the Starlight Foundation that they wanted to meet me. Then I said, me of all people, that you could have chose. You chose me. You didn't choose Mickey Mouth or Donald Douglas, Superman, or, or, uh. or Arnold Schwarzenegger, the predator of Rocky. You asked to see me. I did. The guy who ain't tough, but you knew in my heart that I believed in God that I was sensitive to the children. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. No, thank you. You know, me and God bless this man. Wow, all the way back, you know, many years in the 80s. Wow.

God is good. Tell us a one minute little testimony of like what happened. Make a wish, like a little bit. Yeah, well, I was diagnosed with cancer in 84. I was five years old. I went to St. Jude. I got to make a wish. And they said, what do you guys? What do you want to do anything in the world? And I was like, I want to meet Mr. T, bro, and the A team. Let's do this, right? Let's do it. And they did it. And thankfully, Travis survived. And they got reunited. Very cool. I think we can forgive Mr. T for mowing all those trees down at his home in Lake Forest after that. This is the morning show. More Chicago radio listeners are choosing. This is Chicago's morning answer on AM 560. The answer. Thanks for listening to Chicago's Morning Answer podcast sponsored by Signature Bank. Signature Bank takes pride in helping customers grow their business and provide unmatched banking expertise. custom financial solutions, and the industry's best technology. So whether you're a business looking for a deposit relationship or needs a ready source of financing, signature bank is the right bank for you. Call today at 773-467-500 to hear how signature bank can help your business grow and thrive. Member FDIC, Equal Housing Lender.