Utah Lawmaker Doubles as CEO of Conservative Think Thank

Today on CityCast Salt Lake, the Sutherland Institute is a pretty influential conservative think tank based right on South Temple here in Salt Lake City. They've got big opinions about everything from families to how money is spent in Utah. And their new CEO is one of our frequent guests. I'm Ali Viata. I'm here with Republican State Senator Todd Weiler. Welcome back. Thanks, Ali. Good to be back. Okay. Before we get into it, I have to ask a favor of our audience, which means I also have to ask this favor of you, Senator Weiler, because I know you are in our listening audience. We're doing our annual listener survey. I need you to take it. I'm absolutely begging you to take it. I will take it. Okay. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to go to citycast.fm slash survey. It will only take you seven minutes. We timed it. When you take it, you're going to be entered to be eligible to win a $250 visa gift card, some Citicast Salt Lake Swag. And really the reason we're doing it is we want to know you better, our audience, so that we can make the best possible show for you and not waste your time with things that you don't care about. So your influence in Utah really starts now, Senator Weiler. You know, this survey is probably the biggest step you could take in influencing what conversations are being had. It's probably a conflict for me to take it. We'll get into that.citycast.fm slash survey is the place. Thank you so much. We need 300 people to take it so trust that I won't stop asking you until we hit that number. All right. Utah State Senator Todd Weiler, you represent a little bit of Davis County, a good chunk of Salt Lake City. We brought you here because we got a news alert that shocked us that you are the new president and CEO of the Sutherland Institute. This is... the premier conservative think tank in Utah. Why did you want to leave your job as a lawyer and do this? Well, you know, I'm the Sutherland Institute, I think, first of all, I have a great deal of respect for the work they do. And second of all, it will allow me to kind of merge my two passions. And that's kind of politics and policy on one side and law on the other side because they file amicus briefs. And we're looking at getting a lot more involved in public interest litigation, which I'll be directly involved with. Interesting. Okay. So on what issues could you see the Sutherland Institute in court? Well, let's say a Muslim student is being discriminated against in his school. Maybe we would file a lawsuit over that, something like that. Oh. So you would take that off the plate of the ACLU? Maybe. Maybe. Tell me about the values of the Sutherland Institute right now. Because, I mean, over the past, what, they were founded in 1995, I've seen them.

on all different sides, mostly conservative, but often like at odds with, for example, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on issues. Like today, what are the driving values of this institute? What is the mission? I think that the mission is to make sure our communities remain safe so people can practice their faith of choice and enjoy freedoms and raise their families. It's all about faith, freedom, and family. And we're not pushing faith. We're not pushing in particular faith. It's all about religious liberty and religious freedom. Okay. So you're taking on this role. You're not leaving your job as a state senator. For anyone who doesn't know, you do represent part of Salt Lake City. They've heard you on this show before talking about the I-15 expansion, the new porn age verification laws. I have seen some back and forth about how you heading up this lobbying group while also being a sitting legislator is a conflict of interest. What's your argument against that? So we're a think tank, and we're a think tank that does some lobbying, but we also, like I said, we file amicus briefs. We run public opinion polling through Y2K analytics. We publish op-eds. We publish policy position statements. So, you know, look at we're a 501C3. We have... very strict guidelines on what lobbying we can do and who can do it and the president and CEO cannot be a lobbyist we do have two hired lobbyists and they do a fine job so i i wasn't hired to lobby for the organization. And by the way, Ali, I've been on the board of United Way of Salt Lake for the last decade. They lobby the legislature. I'm on the board of the Children's Museum, the Discovery Gateway Children's Museum. They asked the legislature for money. I work for a law firm that represents hundreds of clients and hundreds of businesses, and all of them have an interest in what's going on in the legislature. You know, California has a full-time legislature where the only jobs that the legislators have, supposedly, is the legislature. Utah has chosen to have a citizen legislature, which means we have school teachers. in the legislature voting for raises for school teachers. We have insurance agents voting on legislation that affects the insurance industry. That is the choice that our state made decades ago. And so I don't think this is any different. I mean, so everyone in the legislature has, almost everyone has a job and has family members with jobs.

And so we disclose our conflicts and we move on. We can't even recuse ourselves in the legislature. If you're on the floor, you have to vote. So if you can't recuse yourself, how have you handled conflict of interest in the past? I have voted what I believed was in the best interest of my constituents. And I'll continue to do that regardless of who my employer is. Okay. So if the Sutherland Institute. is, you know, backing a certain idea or a certain policy idea. And it's something that is unpopular with the people of Senate District 8. You will vote. in the interest of the people of Senate District 8, not in the interest, in the will, to the will of the people of Senate District 8? So I was elected to represent the 130,000 people in my district. I've never represented my law firm. I will not represent Sutherland in the legislature, correct? However, I can tell you, after 15 sessions in the legislature, my values, and I think the majority... you know, opinion in my district aligns fairly well with the faith, freedom, and family principles that Sutherland espouses. And they have gotten involved in a few issues like they were in favor of the scholarships or vouchers, or some people call them. I voted for that. I wasn't an employee of Sutherland a couple years ago when I voted for that. Some of my constituents were against that. Some of them were for it. This is the nature of being in the legislature. You can't please everyone all the time. And so I don't expect my votes. My voting pattern is going to change one bit in switching jobs. And I understand the concern out there because, you know, people don't like conflicts. I think that people who understand the inherent advantages and disadvantages of a citizen legislature understand that this is within that acceptable range because everyone... has a conflict because of their careers, because of their family members careers. But it's just interesting to me, we have legislators who are in leadership of teachers unions who are advocating for and against bills and for more money for teachers, which directly goes into their pockets. And nobody is saying that that's a conflict. There's nothing that the legislature is going to pass that will. put money in my pocket as the CEO of Sutherland. Sure, but it might put a feather in your cap. I mean, if you're a teacher legislator, you probably ran on being a teacher. Like, I'm sure that's, you know what I mean? That's like your platform. That's your whole thing. I'm going to advocate for teachers. Yeah. As the CEO of a think tank, you're directing. on policy, you are, as you mentioned, like even potentially taking certain laws to court, it sounds like, is in your plans. Not laws, no. Discrimination is what we take to court. Discrimination is what you would be interested. Okay. I mean, I think being on the board versus being the CEO of an organization is pretty different.

Right. Like the board is providing oversight of the CEO, et cetera, et cetera. But there are a lot of legislators that sit on a lot of boards. And I think the reason that this question is being asked of you is because we all know it's a little different. There is precedent. But. Well, for instance, the United Way of Salt Lake, which is a wonderful organization. You know, their CEO does not lobby the legislature. This is well established with other nonprofits. What is your main priority in this role? Like, what's one thing that you want to get done in your first year? I would like to bring Sutherland's message and their values to the next generation, like the rising generation of college students. I'd like to increase our footprint and our impact and our effectiveness in Utah and then also in the Intermountain West, Idaho, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona. I love everything that Sutherland's doing, so I just like to double down on that and increase, you know, the impact moving forward. Senator Weiler, I mentioned earlier, like, there have been times when we've seen the Sutherland Institute break with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I'm curious how you're thinking about this role, leading this think tank, in the Trump era of the Republican Party. Are there issues where you think the Institute will break from the more populous wing of the GOP? Oh, yeah, they already have. So Sutherland describes itself as a center-right organization. I said yesterday, I think Ronald Reagan and Republicans would feel at home there. So they've come out strongly against the SAVE Act, which Mike Lee and Donald Trump have been trumpeting. They said it's not consistent with good principles of federalism, which even before I interviewed for this job, that's kind of where I was. No, this is not, we don't want to federalize our elections. Define the SAVE Act a little bit for people. That's, you know, Trump's push that you have to, you're going to have to prove your citizenship to vote. And it's basically taking elections away from the states and federalizing them. And is that your key, is that that you and the Institute, sort of key beef with the SAVE Act, is that it would take power away from the state? Is that the angle? Well, the term federalism is kind of deceptive because it sounds like it's all about the federal, but the terms federalism is about letting the states do their own thing. The federal government has to do some things like national defense, but letting the states do their own thing. And, you know, if you're worried about elections being hacked by Russia or China, The worst thing you could do is make it all centralized in the federal government. Because right now, our elections are, we don't have a national election. We don't have a state election. In Utah, we have 29 county elections. That's what we have. We have 29 county clerks. They count the ballots and then they're totaled up. And nationwide, it's over 2,000 counties. And so if you're going to hack a national election right now, you have to hack each county, county by county. If the SAVE Act passes, I think it would be easier to hack.

if it's all under federal control. So I think it's going to do the opposite of what, you know, President Trump and other people are saying. I think that's an interesting angle on the Save Act, because when I hear people say how much they hate the Save Act, which I've heard many people say, it's... Because it would disenfranchise so many voters, I think 21 million is the estimated number of people who can't access like a passport or documentary proof of citizenship. They've just maybe got a driver's license. But it sounds like the issue that you take with it is a little bit more bureaucratic. Yeah, and, you know, Allie, I don't want to debate the merits of that, but all of the states, including Utah, have been forced to go to real ID. So if you have a Utah driver's license, that really is proof of citizenship because at some point you had to show the driver's license agency that you were a citizen. So I think some of the concerns may be overblown, but I'm still against the SAVE Act. That's a federal issue, though, as you said, it's being spearheaded by one of our... one of our Utah senators. Is there a Utah legislative issue that the Sutherland Institute has broken with legislative leadership on or you think could? Oh yeah, they were very much. pushing back against Speaker Mike Schultz on some of the election reform bills last session. And they did, I think, a really good job of landing some of those bills in a good place, if you will. There's been a lot of, since 2020, there's been a lot of election reform bills in Utah. And I think the Sutherland Institute has just been a voice of reason. And they also will deliver the research to kind of back it up because a lot of legislators will run off. off half cocked with some idea, maybe a constituent brought him or something. And the Sutherland Institute, one of their real advantages is they'll actually do the research. They'll do polling if necessary and come back with the data and say, hey, here's the best policy.

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State Senator Todd Weiler, you represent a fraction of Salt Lake City, Bit of Davis County. You are the new president and CEO of the Sutherland Institute. As the head of an organization, you should probably know what people are saying about it. I went and had a look at the Sutherland Institute's Google reviews. Have you been over there? I know that they kind of got Google bombed a couple of years ago. I want to read you a few and give you an opportunity to respond. Yeah, it's got two stars right now on Google. So here's a brief one from Andrew F. The Sutherland Institute seems to be a shell for propaganda. I wish politics could be less sketchy. I mean, what do you say to that? How do you, as the leader of this institute, rebuild trust with people like Andrew F? Yeah, so I mean, I don't know Andrew F, but my guess is he doesn't. I mean, we're a center-right organization, so if somebody is far left, they're probably going to. take issue with us. And, you know, Google reviews are kind of, you know, for restaurants and, you know, what was the customer experience? So we're not necessarily serving Andrew F, you know, as a customer. And what we're doing is we're trying to push good data and policies for the center right. And so if you are not centered anything, if you're left left, you're probably not going to love the Southern Institute. And that's okay because we're a free country and we don't all have to agree. on everything. So I don't know, Andrew F., but we probably aren't going to make him happy, and that's probably okay. Yeah. There is one more that I want to read you because I think right now the word du jour is affordability. Everyone wants to get ahead of this issue. And there's a bipartisan concern for the cost of living in this country. So here's a review from Tom H. This so-called think tank is the favorite cover of right-wing Utah politicians when they want to shift even more of the state's wealth to the rich. I'm engaged in Utah public policy, and I've seen it so many times. There was another person who brought up shifting wealth who said, They preach small government and low taxes, but exploit the first opportunity to siphon more tax money for corporations and wealthier families at the expense of the poor and middle class. Well, I just, I reject that premise. I don't think that's true. But I think if the far left is saying you're too far right and the far right is saying you're not far right enough, which is what I hear about Sutherland, I think that's an indication that you might be doing things right. Interesting. I mean, where does the Institute stand on issues of affordability? What are some policy? that they've backed related to that. So I haven't even started the job yet, but I'm not sure that. So we're all about keeping community safe for families. And obviously, families need somewhere to live. They need to be able to afford, you know, housing and rent. And so I think that we would, I don't know that we've published anything specifically on affordability. But again, I think that that ties directly into.

communities say for families and families have to be able to afford housing and food and insurance and be able to pay their bills. And so I do think that that's an important issue. And, you know, it's one thing to say affordability. I mean, we see the mayor of New York saying that. And it's another thing to see prices rising every year and crime. So I don't think that Sutherland Institute is interested in a bunch of buzzwords or what people want to hear today. they're more of a stabilizing force saying what is good policy over the next three five 10 years I mean I looked at their policy priorities and I was interested to see one of them is something they call the success sequence so basically steps towards upward mobility they also had work in opportunities social welfare reform things like that listed We talked on this show last week about a CNBC analysis that gave Utah an F for quality of life. The thing about this that I think is so interesting and so relevant to our states like. approach to everything, right, which is often business, a strong economy, et cetera. The economy is humming, something we hear over and over again from state leaders, is that this was a business analysis. They were looking at quality of life in the state as it relates to their business power rankings because, you know, there's this return to the office, their companies are now citing. There's this idea that like you might have to live in the state where the company you work for is, which has. necessarily been the case for the past few years. So one of the reasons that we got an F, all this to say, is things like bad air quality, which we know has improved over the past hundred years but continues to be a concern, are 725 an hour minimum wage, a lack of child care. What types of policies would you as head of the Southern Institute either propose or be interested in researching to boost that grade? So let me deal with each of those. So first of all, our air quality has gotten cleaner every year over the past 40 years. So our air quality in 2026 is better than 2025, better than 2024. I could go on. The lack of... quality daycare. So what they were surveying is licensed daycare. Now my wife, she provides daycare for one of our grandchildren. She is not licensed. I can promise you she's providing high quality day care because she loves that kid to death. And so I do think a lot of Utahans are relying on extended family for daycare, which is not a bad thing. But CNBC is saying it is a bad thing because they're not licensed through the state. And, you know, the minimum wage, yes, we are one of many red states that haven't raised the minimum wage, but most of the people, I mean, you can walk into any old Navy store, any subway sandwich shop, and they'll pay you $12 to $15 an hour. So most people in Utah are not working for minimum wage.

Okay, I hear your rebuttals, but those aren't like policy proposals or solutions. Sure. Those are rebuttals to those issues. Yeah, no. So you ask me about CNBC, I'm responding to CNBC. To CNBC. And do you, so then do you think that any of those three things are issues that need to be addressed or that the Sutherland Institute would be interested in policy that addresses them or no? Yeah, I think that if families need daycare, that they need high quality daycare. But what I'd like to do is say. you know, look at what are people in Utah doing? I just think saying, we're going to count the number of licenses and we're going to stop there. I think that's a lazy and probably an inaccurate analysis. Minimum wage, I've already talked about air quality. If it's getting better every single year, that should be a positive thing. And so we do have some things about our, you know, our inversions that we can't easily change. But we're doing, but we're working on it. But we know that the ozone in the summer is just as bad, if not worse, we just can't see it. Yeah, so February and July are two most, you know, potentially bad months for air quality. Some Februarys are fine. Some Julys are fine. But you're right. But again, we have very good air quality most of the time. So some people choose, it's glass half, empty glass half full. Some people choose to look at only the bad air days. I'm saying on the average, we're trending in the right direction. And we will continue to improve our air quality. every year moving forward, which is a positive thing. Yeah. I mean, you and I have different politics. Sure. Though I do think that we get along. When it comes to the values, the politics of the Southern Institute, the policies in particular that they are looking to back, that they think will make this state a better place, what are some of the places that you think they and I can find common ground? Well, I think that you would probably agree that Utah, our community should be free for people to practice religion if they choose to and whatever religion that is. I lived down in the Spanish Fork area during law school, and they were building this temple where the chalk festival is. And there was some real... opposition to that in the community. People are like, we don't want that in our community. And one thing I saw the Church Jesus Christ of Lattery Saints do, they came in and they made a donation of $25,000 to help finish that temple. And then people kind of quieted down. They're like, oh. And so, you know, I think that we can agree on that. I think, you know, if you choose to get married and have children, I think you'd want your community to be safe for you to raise your family in. And I think you want the freedom to do what you do. want to do and not have to do things that you don't want to do. So I think faith, family, and freedom is something that should resonate with every Utah. Now, some people hear that, like, we're going to force people to, you know, join a church or to go to church. And that's not what Sutherland's about. It's just about religious liberty and religious freedom. If people want to exercise, whether they're Muslim or Jewish or Christian, it doesn't matter. I mean, when I think of freedom and a... I think of bodily autonomy. I think of the freedom to make decisions about my life, about the makeup of my family, about whether or not it's the right time to start a family, things like that. Like that's my interpretation of freedom. So I guess, and in some ways that finds me bumping up against perhaps some of the policies of the Institute when it comes to families, for example.

So I guess freedom is just this like really tricky Venn diagram. Like we could put anything in it. Sure. Do you think this word is like maybe doing a little bit too much work? Well, I mean, I think that's a fair criticism. And if you want to move into the abortion space, I guess we could talk about what freedom of fetus has and that we may disagree on that. But I do think that freedom is a good thing. And I think that if the government is over-regulating us or over-burdening us with taxes and requirements, then that's something that I think Sutherland would push back against. State Senator Todd Weiler, we will be keeping eyes on the work that you're doing at the Southern Institute. the street here. Congrats on your new job and thanks for your time. Thanks, Sally. Thank you. That is all for us today here on CityCast Salt Lake. Please take our listener survey. Citicast.fm slash survey. I am absolutely begging you. Thank you so much. We'll be back tomorrow morning with more from around town.