The Big Weekend Pod

Your education is more than a path to a degree. At Regent University, it's an important step in God's plan for your career. It's where you'll be equipped to lead and serve with purpose. It's where 40,000 graduates have prepared to fulfill their callings, and so can you. Choose a top ringed program from over 150 areas of study, on campus or online, and watch what God will do. Learn more at regent.edu. That's regent.edu. Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College, all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.edu. I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there. And, of course, I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at Q for Hillsdale. Or just Google, Apple, iTunes, and Hillsdale. Morning and even, Grace, America. Welcome to the Big Weekend pod, and a big one it is indeed. John Ellis, Matt Contenetti, Ben Dominich, Eli Lake, and... Daniel Silva, New York Times number one bestselling author of the Gabriel Alon series. He's back with his new summertime blockbuster ransom. That's the dessert after we cover the serious stuff, the escalation in the war, big escalation in the war on Thursday night carrying over into the weekend and reviewing the president's speech with John Ellis and Eli Lake and Matt Continentie and Ben Dominic. And then, of course, Dan Silva and I will talk at length. about Ransom. So settle back and enjoy your workout, because this is a real special big weekend pod, and I hope you enjoy it. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Stay tuned. Glory and Even, Grace, America. A lot coming up on this Friday of the Hildale Dialogue. Author Danny Silva is back. Talk to me about his brand new book, Ransom. Matt Connery, Ben, Dominich, Eli Lake. And, of course, we begin as we do most Fridays with John Ellis, founder and editor-in-chief of news items. John, the price of oil is at $82 a bail right now. You are of the opinion China holds the key to whether it stays there. Can you explain why? Well, as we know, the U.S. and Israel attacked Iran. Iran shut down the strait of Hormuz, shutting down the strait of Hormuz cut off essentially 20% of the world's energy supply. And so everybody assumed that the price of oil would go to 120, 150, 250, 200, depending on all you talk to. Well, it turned out it didn't. It's now in the 80s. It's likely to go lower. And the reason for that is that China has dramatically reduced its imports from the Middle East. And when I say dramatically, by almost half. They've gone into reserves, which they have apparently bountiful amounts, and they have plugged into their solar plants, which are enormous. And so the price of oil, which everybody thought would go up, has actually been relatively stable. Some people think, experts think, that it could go down into the mid-70s, maybe even as low as 65, if China continues to not import the amounts.

of oil and gas that it was importing before, which would obviously have some terrific knock-on effects, lower inflation, and perhaps even lower federal interest rates. So it's one of those weird things. What do you make of the Iran situation? I'm looking at a live feed of the American airlift to the Middle East right now, and it's an air bridge. It's fueler supply, fueler supply. I think it's going to go big over the weekend. What do you think? I think so. I think, you know, you can tell by how close U.S. forces are to the Gulf, I mean, to the straight, essentially, or to Iran. And if more and more assets, as they're called, are closer and closer, then it's likely that, you know, it's going to go bigger soon. On the other hand, I've long been of the view that the way to win the war is to say, okay, we've successfully completed phase one, phase two is blockade and even tighter sanctions. The Iranian economy will collapse, and so we just have to be patient. I think that would be the best course, but, you know, I'm not the precedent, so it doesn't really... I'm a hybrid between a long, drawn-out war. I would take out the dual-use electricity plants just to make it harder on the IRGC and everything. And if there are like Key Bridge to Bondar Abbas like he did last night, that can get blown up. But then I would do what you suggest because it's going to be an internal revolution. Eli Lake's coming up after you. He's pointed out the history of regime collapse is usually internal, not external. It does happen sometimes with external forces, but it's usually internal. Let me turn to the spooky stuff you sent me. The AI exoself. You know, this is not for me. I'm a boomer. You're a boomer. But you also make the argument the exoself is going to be like a second skin the youngs wear before long. Tell us about it. Well, I think people are familiar probably with meta glasses, which you wear, and it connects you to the Internet, and you can take pictures with those glasses and so on and so forth. The next iteration of that is essentially artificial intelligence in your pocket. And that is always on following everything you do. You can talk to it as you go along throughout the day. It can take notes for you. It can do agency for you and get you a plane ticket or, you know, call somebody you need to call. When you go to sleep, it'll monitor your sleep. And the thought is, there's a man named Kevin Kelly, who's the founder of Wired Magazine. He wrote a terrific column about this in which you said eventually the next generation. Not our generation, Hugh, but the next generation, I guess generations, will grow very comfortable with this because they'll have the world's intelligence in their pocket. They will tell them how they're doing, tell them what they need to know, tell them where they need to be. And it's totally scary because it's a second self, in a sense, because it gets to know you as you talk to it, as you talk to others. It records everywhere you go. And people say, well, that's impossible.

But actually, given where Mediglasses is right now, and it's not at all unthinkable to see Mr. Kelly's vision realized in the next three, four, five years. John, I can tell from the bookshelf behind you, you are a reader. And I assume you grew up reading history and great thrillers like Daniel Silva's thrillers and Len Dayton's thrillers and La Cray, and that was your summer reading. But you had to do your history, et cetera. I'm afraid the new AI and the new online era will not be readers in the way that you and I were readers. Does that cross your mind what happens when you... Basically raise a generation of people who don't re compulsively because of boredom. I'm concerned about that. I mean, how you process information, it's been in studies show that if you write it manually on a piece of paper, you process the information better than if you type it on a keyboard. Now we're going, we're getting rid of the, we've gotten rid of the penmanship, and now we're going to get rid of the keyboard. It's all going to be voice. And that's, you know, you're going to have people. who are listening to podcasts, who are listening to, you know, Instagram feeds and so and so forth. But I think for authors, it's going to be a fallow period. Let's put it that one. And for people who actually are informed by history. Let's talk about the AI data centers, though, that would power the ETSO self and all this revolution. Who's winning this war because both the right and the left are angry about it, but I think the left is angrier. Well, I think that what's happened in these Democratic primaries, I think it's one of the sort of secret sources that the left has deployed is opposition to data centers, which is sort of the symbol of big tech's power. But in the case of the left wing of the Democratic Party, they've also been specifically critical of big tech, and they've been specifically critical of the power of AI making people, ordinary people, so to speak. you know, powerless. And this is, you know, we saw it with Kathy Hochul banning for one year development of any data centers in New York State. She didn't do that because she thinks it's the right thing to do. She did that because the left is rising in New York State as, you know, Zohran Mamdani being the sort of a prime example of that. The one that's most interesting to me is Francesca Ha.

Francesca Hong, who is the left-wing candidate for governor in Wisconsin as a primary upcoming there. She has used the data center slash big tech issue to her advantage, and it's quite possible she'll win the nomination. John Ellis, the fracking issue 10 to 15 years ago was glommed onto by the left, and they convinced the American Middle for a while that fracking was bad for you until the American Middle figured out. We like natural gas. We like our houses heated at the old prices, and we want the oil price to be down. Do you think that the... A campaign against data set as an AI is similar to the data. The campaign against fracking of a 10, 15 years ago, and it will eventually turn when productivity is measured and people understand we really need this. You know, I can tell you a story. My son-in-law is in the alternative energy space, and they are developing a solar plant, if you will, in Hood County, Texas, which is west, I think, of El Paso. I think Hood County, Texas was 82% Trump. And so he's coming down from, you know, alternative energies thinking these people aren't, you know, they're not going to like me. They're not going to like the idea. They couldn't, he said they couldn't have cared less about his solar plant. They were fine with that. What really had them riled up was the building of a data center in Hood County. And so I think what's unusual about this issue is that it unites the right and the left. So it's a different kettle of fish, and I think, you know, I think people are really concerned about enormous power being transferred to a very, very small group of people. You mean real power, energy, the grid. You mean the grid? No, I'm talking about real power. Like, you know, if you... Yeah, or just power. If you control the most important technology, arguably in the history of mankind, and there aren't that many of you, you have the most money, you have the most juice, you have, you know, on and on it goes. and people in Hood County, Texas or Brattleboro, Vermont are of a similar opinion that this is not a good idea. I mean, you can unite Steve Bannon with whoever the left-wing strategist is on this issue. Wow.

I have to let that settle a little bit. Hasan Piker and Steve Bannon, wouldn't have thought about that. John Ellis, editor, founder of news items, which I begin my day with, and you ought to as well. The substack that condenses and organizes all the world's news overnight, so you don't have to read all briefings in order to understand what matters most news items from John Ellis. Thank you, John. I'll be right back with Eli Lay. Welcome back, America. Eli Lake is the free press correspondent, who's also the host of Breaking History. Eli, I am looking at the live feed of the U.S. Air Force airlift to the Middle East. It is ongoing, continuous, and busy. What do you think is happening? I don't know, but I would imagine I have something to do with Iran. Seems like the president has hinted, at least in his... you know, speech last night that, you said, you know, wait and see something about, he mentioned, he kind of said, well, and we'll see more in Iran soon. So, well, I don't know, you know, well, we'll have to wait and see. John Ellis just speculated that the best way to finish this war is to deliver a big blow and then just keep the blockade in place and see what happens. What do you think of that theory? Well, you know, my view is that if Trump, if Trump, it's really Israel and America, if the result of the two wars is that we've taken away the Iranian nuclear program and we haven't suffered a global recession and there, you know, hasn't been other kind of catastrophic effects of that. then that's overall going to be a, you know, then that's a win. It doesn't, it's not a win in the conditions that we may have hoped initially with the initial decapitation strikes and getting rid of Ali Khamenei. It did not end up in toppling the regime, but I think the regime is much weaker and it doesn't have a nuclear blackmail. And then over time, hopefully. The slow process of, you know, military naval escorts of ships in the Strait of Formuz closer to the Oman side will hopefully, you know, mitigate the blackmail of the regime when it comes to the Strait of Formos. Okay, I want to switch to two men who would be president. Ambassador Rahm Emanuel, former mayor, Chicago, former chief of staff to the president, and JD Vance, the vice president. Ram Emanuel gave a speech last week in Tel Aviv that was very specific in his criticisms of Israel. JD Vance gave a three-hour interview that I have not yet listened to. I've read many accounts of some of them conflicting. I assume you're up to speed on both. How do the two men compare in their approach to Israel, if at all? It's a good question. I mean, I want to start with Rahm Emanuel, who you had a great interview with, I thought, on the show this week. And I disagreed with his speech. I think he's coming from a place of what he calls tough love. But I think he misdiagnoses the problem in that what he's saying is that if Israel can show a path to a two-state solution.

and, you know, meet halfway, some of, you know, its critics, then you will find that, then Israel will find that its isolation in elements and pockets of the West will diminish and go away. I think he's wrong. I think what the problem is is that... We've already seen it in the UK Labor Party. The Democratic Party right now is in the process of, at the very least, forming a coalition with people whose views are basically pro-Hamas that are anti-Western, anti-American, and anti-Israel, and don't believe that the Jewish state has a right to exist. And if you form a kind of... How's what I put it? If you, if you form a coalition with a group like that, because of their illiberalism, because they are not committed to our values, they will ultimately end up eating their, you know, the children of the revolution or they will ultimately end up prevailing by any means necessary. We saw a preview of that this week on a, on the podcast known as Dropsite News. where Ro Khanna, who has, you know, recently kind of reinvented himself to pander to this crowd, was, you know, repeatedly asked in a kind of struggle session by one of the interviewers, Jeremy Skale, whether, you know, Palestinians had a right to attack Israeli soldiers and they kind of, why can't they do October 7th where they attack these military bases? And it was insane, you know, to Ro Khanna's credit, I'm not a fan. He didn't take the bait, but the point is, is that that's where it's headed. So I just think that Rahm Emanuel is kind of going to Israel, beating up on Israel. And his argument is like, hey, you got to do some of these things, and that'll be the way out of your isolation. And my point is that it's not going to make a difference if you have center-left parties aligning themselves. with these hard leftists. Now, in the case of JD Vance, my issue with him was more about, he kind of implied that he, you know, there might be some things, there might be files that connect Jeffrey Epstein to the CIA and the Mossad, but, you know, they were probably destroyed a long time ago. That is pouring gasoline on conspiracy theory. You're the vice president. You need to be responsible when you're asked about that. I also think that his theory that, you know, the MOU that he was negotiating with the Iranians was somehow sabotaged by harsh criticism inside the United States among, you know, pro-Israel supporters of Trump is risible. It was sabotaged because the Iranians are who they've always been, which are, you know, a bunch of terrorists who lie. So, you know, that was disappointing. But, you know, the bottom line is, and I made this case on the commentary podcast, JD Vance is not somebody who I think...

hates Israel or wants, you know, it sort of wants to see its destruction or is overly concerned and is convinced that Israel has become a monstrosity. JD Vance wants a grown-up relationship between the United States and Israel. I do too, by the way. I'm in favor of ending the military aid and the military subsidy at this point. So. That strikes me as, you know, fairly reasonable, and he's been pretty consistent. If you go back to 2024 and you listen to his speech at the Quincy Institute, what you find is a politician who is making the argument that Israel is a valuable ally because it can defend itself and defend American interests. So on that point, I will just... sort of say, I think he's okay. I do have a lot of other problems right now with JD Vance in this world, and, you know, chief among them would be, you know, he still is, I think, an ally and won't announce Tucker Carlson who I really do think has, like, launched into orbit, Hugh. Let me ask you, he's out there. Low on time here. Yeah. And it might go into the break. I've interviewed the vice president a lot when he was running for Senate in the Senate. a couple of times since he's been vice president nominated. He's always been Israel is its own country. It needs to do what it needs to do to protect its security, kind of a grown-up attitude. I think both Rahm Emanuel and JD Vance are playing the first inning of the long game in the quest for the nomination by going to their left or to their right in the case of JD Vance. So Ramaniel went to his left. JD Vance went to the right just to kind of touch base before you go back. to the center right and the center left. Are they doing the same thing for their respective parties? And I haven't heard the JD Vance interview. I'm just trusting your assertion there. My concern really about JD Vance is less to do with what he says about the U.S. Israel relationship, and it's much more to do with the fact that he seems to be in a position, if you want to say he's tacking to his right right now or trying to keep shore up his base, of not offending a bunch of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, you know, nonsense people. My view is that those people... Just like I don't think, I'm glad that Buckley ultimately led the charge to get the Birchers out of the party. Well, we have a Berkshire problem in 2026 on the right. And JD Vance at this point has shown me that he doesn't want to offend him. It doesn't mean he's one of them because I don't think he is. Rahm Emanuel's problem is that he doesn't understand how insipid and terrible the new left populist socialists are that are trying to enter the Democratic Party. Think longer on that, Eli, because I think it's the same problem for both guys. But you're smarter than I am, so I'll wait to read what you write in the free press. Oh, no. Or Sam, breaking history is a wonderful podcast. Eli Lake, Falamont, exit, Eli Lake. Thank you. I'll be right back, America, with Continent. I'm a little bit hurt, but a lot more free. I ain't saying that you never took a toll on me for what it's worth.

I can finally... Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Matt Contenetti is my guest, Head of Domestic Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, columnist for the Wall Street Journal. And this is my now new feature for the young members of my show, new and rising stars. I just want to see if Matt is hip. Do you know who this is, Matt Contonetti? No, I'm not young, and I am not hip. It's Matt. It sounds like the lumineers. It's Max McNaught, and he's a big deal among the young. So I'm glad to hear I'm not the only guy. Very emotional music. I was so, I mean, I don't know, kind of depressing intro. I'm so geared up to talk about the news of the week, and now I might have to sip a latte or something and think about my... He says I'm a little bit down, but I'm a lot more free. That's kind of like the world. Let's go to Iran, McConnor. I have just read Rebecca Heinrich's estimate that if there's a ground force, it won't be for long, but there might be a ground for it. I listened to POTIS speech last night. I was kind of disappointed he didn't do more on Iran, but he said, stay tuned. And the real-time air bridge... visuals are amazing. Everything is going to the Middle East faces. What do you think is going to happen next? Well, I think the president is preparing to escalate the conflict. And I think what we've seen, Hugh, in the past week, is a gradual escalation, and not only a return to combat operations, a resumption of the blockade on Iranian ports, but now also targeting dual use. infrastructure in Iran, which, of course, we've been talking about on this program for months, but taking out some of those bridges, taking out some of those economic facilities. transportation hubs, all part of an effort to seriously degrade and eventually deny Iranians the ability to shut down the Strait of Hormuz. And so I'd say the preparations we're seeing taking place right now are providing the president options to continue that effort in the coming week. Congressman Hagen from North Carolina told me earlier this week, we cannot take Kars Island, as has been proposed, because it's lower than the high ground from which the Iranians could fire onto it. I was unaware of that basic fact, but he's a special forces veteran. Were you aware of that fact? Well, I suppose I was aware that a lot of that coastal topography, as you can see on the map, is elevated, and it's a mountainous part of Iran, which is in general kind of a mountainous... country, in large country, but plenty of mountains there. And so you see the drone and missile teams that have been harassing the shipping in the Strait of Hermuz are able to kind of operate within these elevated conditions, kind of sneak in and out and fire at shipping.

You know, I think one point Congress in Harrigan made that stuck with me was this idea of boots on the ground and how an operation to siege Karg Island would be different than our incredible rescue operation of the two downed airmen earlier in Operation Epic Fury. This would be an operation where we would seize and hold ground Iranian territory, and that, of course, would mean that our soldiers would be the targets of drone and missile attacks. Going to pursue that policy, I think every effort needs to be made to prepare for how the Iranians would attempt to retaliate and attempt to harm our soldiers. I think that's one reason why President Trump, of course, has always been very reluctant to put boots on the ground unless he knows that the mission is defined, that there's a time set, and that the objectives can be achieved. the opportunity for other ground troops. Do you think our Arab colleagues, not Israeli forces, but UAE, which is deployed with us to Afghanistan, deployed with us to Iraq, do you think that the UAE and other Arab troops might be involved in such an incursion where necessary? I'd be very skeptical of that idea, Hugh, mainly because our Gulf allies have participated in some extent in retaliating against Iran, because, of course, Iran has been striking at them since the very beginning of the open conflict earlier this year. But I don't say, I'm not sure they've been at the forefront, let's say. Certainly not anywhere near where Israel was during the first phase of Operation Epic Fury Operation Roaring Lion for the Israelis. So I'd be surprised if we saw a deployment of Gulf military assets in any ground operation. Just as, you know, I'd be a little bit surprised if there were a major. ground operation in the coming weeks. All right. I'll be right back with Matt Continent during the break. Talk about the president's speech on Thursday night. Don't go anywhere. He'll be back after the break to talk about Rahm Emanuel and Vice President's Dance. Both men gave speeches. They were different, but they were the same. One gave a speech. One gave an interview. I want to be specific. Don't go anywhere. I'll be right back on the huge deal with show. I'm back now with Matt Continent, any of the Wall Street Journal on AEI. Matt, I stayed up later than I wanted to. I'd do Fox and Friends first this morning in the 5 o'clock hour, so I didn't really want to stay up to watch the president's speech. Thankfully, it was only 27 minutes. And I said I stayed up for that. I got the documents down this morning. What did you make of it and the documents he released, which were heavily redacted? I mean, very heavily redacted. I thought it was a very interesting speech that the president gave Hugh. I like the fact that he wants to give more of these addresses. I think it's a setting we don't usually see him in. I thought the subject to the speech was very much defined. Previously in the week, we had heard it would be a potpourri or a smorgas board. He wanted to talk about election integrity. He wanted to talk about the Save America Act. And I really think that's what this speech was about, marshalling some new evidence, some new disclosures.

to say that our election system is vulnerable. It's vulnerable to outside influence. It is leaky. It is not very efficient, for sure, especially when you think of states like California or New York. And it needs to be addressed. And I think that the message on the Save America Act is useful for a couple reasons politically. One is... It is a defined agenda item, and it's critical for President Trump. Two, it's something that the base of the Republican Party cares passionately about. And right now, the big, I think, challenge facing Republicans ahead of the midterm is a lack of enthusiasm for the election. Kind of a complacency. People are more or less happy with President Trump's... 10 year in office if you're a Republican. So they need an additional reason to go to the polls. And so what I see in this speech is President Trump giving his voters a reason to go to the polls to advocate for the Save America Act and to put on pressure on the Senate to pass it. You know, the reveal to me, because I did get the first document down on the CHICOMs, they've got 200 million American voter files. That means they know name, address, and residence. That's very unnerving. Don't you find that to be very unnerving? Oh, incredibly. I mean, the Chinese penetration of Americans' systems of identification, whether it's a voter role. Remember the OPM hack many years back where they just seized all the information of government employees over decades? China, we now know, of course, if you look at the mayor in Southern California, who was revealed to be a Chinese spy. China has penetrated our society. And so I think it's totally legitimate for the president to raise this issue. We have to be concerned about it. And we have to take steps to secure our voting process. And then we also have to look at the voter ID point, which is something he's stressed and which is part of the Save America Act. That is extremely popular initiative, voter ID. It's commonsensical. We take ID everywhere. Everyone has an ID. Obviously, there are a few exceptions that can be addressed. But, you know, hard cases don't make for good law, right? People like the idea of voter ID. And again, that's an issue that President Trump knows his voters respond to and something we see at work in last night's speech. And he sucker punched a lot of the left that thought he was going to relitigate 2020. And he did not, except for a couple of cues here and there. He really didn't. I'll be right back with Matt Continent. And he stay tuned, America. Happy Jack wasn't told, but he wasn't planned. He lived in the sand at the island.

Welcome back, America. I'm playing Happy Jack because Matt Continent. He didn't like my Downer music. The last time I entered it. Do you like Happy Jack, Matt? Oh, of course. How can I not? And I'm smiling here as we get into our next segment. Let me put before you two exhibits. Ambassador, former mayor of Chicago, former chief of staff to the President of the United States, former member of Congress, from Emmanuel, goes to Israel, gives a speech. I discussed it with him this week. Vice President JD Vance flies to California does a three-hour interview with Joe Rogan, which I have not listened to, and I'm leery of clips because of AI and editing, but maybe you know more about it than I do. I think they were doing the same thing, which is playing to a part of their party that they perceive a need to at least be on talking terms with as they quest for the presidency. What did you make of both and how do you compare each? All right. Well, just to start with Emmanuel, I mean, there, Rahm Emanuel's speech, of course, was based on partisan reasons. Ram Emanuel's thinking of running for president in 2028, and his party has taken a sharp turn against the state of Israel. We saw that just in the House this week where over 100 House Democrats voted to cut off aid to Israel. You know, 10 years ago, the number would be zero. Now it's 103. And you can just see there the Democrats are becoming an anti-Israel party. Rahm Emanuel knows it. In his speech in Israel, Emmanuel made three claims, Hugh, that I truly disagree with. One is the idea that Israel is isolated. Israel is not isolated at all. It counts among its allies, the most powerful democracy in the world, the United States, and the most populous democracy in the world, India. Another claim Emmanuel made was that, you know, for too long, he says American support for Israel has been unqualified. We've done whatever Israel wants. And my response to him there is, look in the mirror, Mr. Ambassador, because you worked for three presidents, Clinton, Obama and Biden, whose support was not unqualified at all. I mean, who did, in fact, in Obama's case, did everything he could to create daylight between the United States and Israel. And then the third idea he had. is this idea for a 23-state solution, the idea that rather than try to have a two-state solution between Israel and a potential Palestinian state, the settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute should be submerged within a settlement between Israel and the Arab League. But that is just an evasion, in my view, because at the end of the day, the obstacle to peace in the Middle East is not Israel. The obstacle to peace in the Middle East is Palestinian denialism. Palestinian denial of Israel's right to exist. That is what has prevented every single peace agreement from bearing fruit. And until the Palestinians change their attitude toward Israel and accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, you will not have any peace. So that is Rahm Emanuel, a speech that he is delivering to an anti-Israel party, but I think that was riddled with errors. For Vice President JD Vance and his interview with Joe Rogan, I'm not sure actually what the party...

Aspect if it is, Hugh, I have to tell you, because as the Democratic Party is turning against Israel, the Republican Party is not. In fact, the Republican Party is driving out the anti-Israel members. And just look at that resolution I mentioned. It was sponsored by Thomas Massie, a Republican loser. But who is just a Republican loser who just lost his seat to a primary challenge sponsored by President Trump. So who is the audience that Joe Rogan represents and that JD Vance is catering to with his comments. It's not Republicans, but it is part of the Trump coalition. It is kind of the newer elements of the Trump coalition that were very important to Trump's victory in 2024. What they're called low propensity voters. They're not necessarily attached to the party structure. They did not like the way things were going under Biden. And they were part of Trump's winning coalition in 2024. And I think there, what the vice president is concerned about is keeping those voters in a potential 2028. coalition. At the same time, I think some of the claims he made were also ill-founded. Is it possible? I argued with Rahm Emanuel. There are factual errors in his speech. The United States was not around in 1948. Ike was actually very hard on them in 1956. We were absent in 67. Nixon came in and saved Israel in 73, and that's when the modern... So it was just wrong on fact. Is it possible JD Vance is playing to an aesthetic impulse among younger voters? It doesn't really matter what you say, but it matters where you say it. and that in the course of saying it, you demonstrate that you're a real person who hasn't been fabricated in a industrial-sized turnout politician's assembly line. Well, I think there's absolutely a part of that. Think about the Joe Rogan experience. It's an incredibly successful and popular podcast. It itself became an issue in the 2024 campaign when President Trump sat for a three-hour interview and Kamala Harris would not appear, right? Because she didn't want to have to talk for that long. She wouldn't have been able to. So JD Vance is showing that he can be like President Trump. Again, trying to maintain the winning coalition from 2024 in these coming years ahead of 28. And then you also raise a good point with the younger generation.

I mean, there's no question that the two parties are now polarized on the question of Israel. But younger voters, though, as a whole, they are, it seems to me, are becoming as a whole more skeptical of the U.S. Israeli alliance. There's clearly rising anti-Semitism among this generation. So if you want to kind of keep them in the coalition as well, you might be saying statements that, you know, that Israel's involved in an influence campaign to undermine the MOU when there's no real evidence of that. There were people who had criticisms of the MOU and people who saw Iran for what it was. They were the ones who were saying that this MOU wouldn't work. And guess what? It didn't. But you might, if you might want to say, look, this is, we don't need to have a stronger relationship with Israel as we have had in the past if you want to kind of make sure that you have connections and inroads to these younger voters. I think that's very, very sharp, Matt Contenetti, and I look forward to listening to yesterday's commentary podcast on which I assume you were, but I couldn't listen to it yesterday, and reading your Wall Street Journal expressions column from today, which, again, I'm behind today because of a variety of reasons, but I appreciate the time as always. Follow Matt on Exit Contonetti, read them in the Wall Street Journal, hear them on the Thursday episode of the commentary podcast. And Fridays and Tuesdays when we're lucky here on the Do You at Show. I may miss you next week, Matt, by the way. I've got to go to Florida and will be guest hosts both of your days next week. Don't go anywhere, America. I ain't saying that you never took a toll on me. Welcome back, America. Morning, glory, and evening, Grace. I'm Hugh Hewitt. And that is this week's quiz for Ben Dominic, opinion editor at The Daily Wire, Fox News contributor, host of the Big Ben podcast, trying to test and see if he actually knows anything about new music. Ben, you know who that is? Uh, that's, uh, is that, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, Matt Conantney, didn't, uh, Matt Conantney didn't even play. He didn't even try and get in on the game. So you're much, that's probably because of your wife, right? She's the country person, right? Yeah, I You'd be surprised by my playlist. I would thank you, Hugh. But, yes, I've heard this. And I can't always name, you know, country song, if you kind of, you'll listen for a little bit to get something, but I did, but this one has come across my radar. So, yes. All right. So I got, this is cultural. We'll get to politics. I can't remember the names of actresses who are under 40.

Yeah, I just, they're gone. They come like in the Lioness, like we're watching it now, and the fetching Mrs. Hewitt knows who every one of the young stars are, and I have no idea. Do you? Lioness is, so it's, that is actually one of the rare entries in the Taylor Sheridan cinematic universe. I should say that I have not actually watched. I know Nicole Kidman's in it. But other than that, no. Nicole Kidman is in it. She's fabulous, as is everyone in the first two episodes grab you. But, okay, so I'm glad we're at least for one for one. Let's get to the series. I'll tell you, the thing that is true about this, though, is that what's amazing to me is that there are actresses that you know when you're my age. exclusively from trailers for movies that you never see. Like, I think a good example of that. I mean, I've actually seen a lot of movies with her because I think she's an actress, but Margaret Quali is somebody who I think, you know, I was having conversation with the other day. I was like, how many actual movies have you seen with her in it? And they were like, uh, she's in the Tarantino one for her. You're a millennial, though, right? You and your spouse are millennials. A truly millennial, yes. And so. What I got asked the other day is who are going to be the opinion makers among the next generation? Now, I know Gen X pretty well. I know the millennials pretty well. I don't know that anyone's risen to the top in Gen Z yet. Has anyone? The only people who've risen to the top in Gen Z, I would argue to this point, have been video creators and influencers. And some of those, I think, have been quite creative and innovative. Nick Shirley would be a good example of that. I think the people who are going to rise to the top are the people who are already demonstrating a capacity for doing something more than offering opinions. Mainly they're doing reported opinions and the like, or they're digging into things. But look, it's a generation, a Zoomer generation that I am, you know, we have multiple staffers now, staffers, not just interns who were born after 9-11. And I sit down with them on regular occasion to do what we call 90s lunch, and we talk through various things that happened. you know, before they were born, basically, that led up to the world that they were in. And they'd say all sorts of interesting things. For instance, you know, one of them last week was saying, I had no idea that Bill Clinton was so charming. And indeed he was. Oh, yes. There's gaps to fill there. Okay, you work among a very young demo. And so I'll ask the same question I asked of John Ellis. John is always on Salem News Channel with his books behind him. And when John and I are both boomers, and we're growing up, there's like three networks, and they're usually running bad stuff. So you read, and you read, and you read, and you read, and you read, and you read comic books, and then you read thrillers, and you read, and you read them, and then you read history, and all you did was read, read, read, read, read, that's going away, Ben. Nobody reads the way that the boomers read because we had nothing else to do. What's that going to do to the political talent in America?

This is the thing that I think is going to happen from that. And I actually can use, again, my own fellow junior staffers who are, you know, obviously, if you come and work for the Daily Wire or something like that, you are someone who has ambition to work, you know, potentially in the media political field. The thing that is marked about them is they are always asking me for book recommendations. I've given books to each of our younger staff in the office. And they're different books, you know, based on their – in fact – This just might amuse you. I gave John Podhorst's book a hell of a ride about the Bush campaign to somebody the other day. I gave a copy of Primary Colors for somebody the other day. Oh, very good. Joe Klein, yeah. So, you know, it's not, you're not just, I think you have to ease them into, you know, the point where they're reading Oriana Falachi or they're, you know, or they're going back and, you know, so what was this Christopher Hitchens guy about? or something like that. Well, I read deeply in British history. I mean, I know British history, and I'm just, I'm finishing a new book on Oliver Cromwell and Charles III because it's something I grew up with. It became a passion because it was kind of interesting and weird. I don't think anybody does that anymore, do they? You know, I think it takes a while for people to get into that. One of our younger staffers, I think that this would be of interest to you. is actually someone who basically wants to read every book that's about Richard Nixon. And right now is, you know, I've given him a couple, and I think that, you know, he's very, you know, he's fascinated by a certain period of history. I think that this is going to be the differentiator going forward. If you are a Zoomer who manages to still take time to actually read books, to not just live on the Internet, to not just live in the world of Instagram Reels and TikTok, and X and everything else, that is going to be the thing that separates you from other people, because you will have the capacity for not just, you know, historical knowledge, but I think deep thought about the differences between those things. You're completely right, by the way. When I was growing up, my family didn't have cable. You know, we didn't. We, you know, we had the limited networks. And so, you know, I literally worked at the local library, and I would take the time at the end of the day to, you know, take a stack of books and that kind of thing. That's, it's a, it's a, it was a mark then of just sort of starting early today. I think it's a mark of standing out within a generation that statistically... is just not reading books the way that they ought to. It will be an enormous advantage. And by the way, I hope you tell that young staffer, although it's not much loved by Nixon people, Nixon by Gary Wills, is a left-winger's view of Richard Nixon, which is wrong, but it's good. And it's good to have that kind of a – I spent last weekend at La Casa Pacifica's 100th anniversary celebration, so I was deep into Nixon world last weekend. So I'm glad to hear that you've got one. Send him my way if they ever want to be a guest on the Hugh Hewitt show. We'll talk about that. Absolutely. Let's get to the news. There is an airlift. I'm watching the live stream tracking the United States Air Force airlift. It's massive, Ben. What do you think we're going to do over the weekend in Iran? You know, Hugh, I'm reluctant to guess only because I feel like I've been wrong on your program so many times when I thought the president was going to lean so hard into them.

But I still think that that is the case right now. I think he's fed up. He is fed up with this situation. And, you know, look, I think, and we can talk a little bit about what the vice president did when he went on Joe Rogan this week. But the MLU is in the past. It's in the rearview mirror. It was a punt that potentially had some kind of squeaky way that it might have worked. A lot of us who were skeptical, I think were proven right by the actions of the Iranians since then. And there is just no defending it anymore. And there's just nothing. I mean, look, I heard the words from Tom. I heard the quotes from Tom Cotton about this. Yep, he's right. I agree with him. You know, it's just not. It is not a situation that is in any way stable. We have to, you know, and this is something that I think I appreciate it from cotton because. I think it's important to redefine the nature of what victory looks like right now for voters and people who are listening. And people, you know, who basically kind of tuned this out at some point and then have this vague idea that we are losing, which we are not, but also, you know, we aren't winning. Like we haven't been, you know, we've accomplished great things, but what does victory look like? And I think that that's something that Republicans need to understand. They should be defining and then saying, here's what we need to do to achieve this. This is the goal that we have. And that gets rid of the accusation. from both right and left, that this is going to be some, you know, a forever war situation, boots on the ground in Iran situation. That is not, you know, what we're trying to do here. And that's not something that is part of, you know, the president's overall approach to foreign policy. It's never been part of it. And so instead, I think it's important to say, look, this is our definition of what victory looks like. We think we're going to have to take these additional steps in order to achieve it. It is achievable and we're going to do it. I hope he does that. I wish he had done it last night. During the break, we're going to talk about two speeches, or a speech and interview. Ron Emanuel and JD Vance, because they were both talking to perceived. political groups of influence within their party, I think, but we'll compare and contrast. But in the meantime, Senator Cotton said we need to destroy their military ability to project force, and that includes threatening the strait. Doesn't mean regime change, could mean the collapse follows, but that's doable, Ben, 30 seconds to break. Don't you think that's doable? It is doable, and it's by doing the things that we haven't done yet, which we've talked about before, the targets that we have.

not hit and decided not to hit because of, you know, frankly, I think there was this window where they were trying to get a deal done. Now that's over, and so now you've got to hit it. We'll be right back with Ben during the break. And after the break, don't go into America on Hugh Lewis. I'm back with Ben Dominic now. Ben, I have not seen the vice president's interview with Joe Rogan, and I refuse to watch clips because they can be manipulated. So I'm going to have to make the time, I guess. Yeah, I would encourage you to do so. And yes, again, whenever the danger, by the way, of going on Joe Rogan, and this has to drive political consultants crazy is that you end up talking for two and a half, three hours. And that can be completely manipulated or taken out of context in ways that are completely unfair to the person being in it. That's why I won't watch the clips because I don't even know if they're real, much less in context. But we have these two parallel events. Rahm Emanuel, Ambassador Japan, Mayor of Chicago, Chief of Staff to President Obama, powerful member of Congress. The Emanuel family is powerful in many ways. He goes to Israel, gives a speech blasting BB and Israel and warning them. JD Vance goes on, Joe Rogan, and I don't know what he does yet, but I've seen stories that allege he's done a lot of things on that. How do you compare those two presentations? And we're going to go into the next segment as well, so take your time. You know, the thing that I'll focus on the Rogan interview first just because you've, it seems to me that the vice president is trying to achieve something with this interview that he's trying to achieve multiple goals. He's trying to humanize himself, which I think he does quite well. But I think he's also trying to reshape the narrative around this MLU and the people who were criticizing him over it because I think he views this. you know, correctly as being his first major sojourn into foreign policy, where he really owned something within the administration or was viewed as its leading champion, and it didn't work out. And so now he's trying to, I think, you know, reframe this thing. The thing that bothered me, I think, it was, you could pick different things out about it. I still think it is disingenuous to sort of paint this as being a deal that went bad because of any actions on the part of Israel or people who support Israel or those who view us as having a close alliance with Israel. I did think it was funny that he did something that a lot of people who I think are in the kind of moderate camp do when they're talking about foreign policy, which he said, you know, why can't we just have a relationship with Israel, which is like our relationship with England and France? Number one. Have you checked our relationship with England and France recently? Because it's not actually that good. In fact, I would put Japan, South Korea, you know. Oh, boy. Singapore, Australia. You bet. Yes. There are a number of nations, I would say, before we get to 10 Downing Street. So I, look, you know, we can discuss that, set that aside. But look, I think that the mistake that the vice president is kind of making here is one that.

says that he's kind of trying to appeal to the same people over and over. And those are the people who listen to these podcasts primarily. And I think that the vice president has the capacity. He's shown it before to adapt and to reach across lines that he couldn't have crossed. He said all sorts of terrible things about Trump, even after he was first elected president. And he ended up as his vice president. This is a guy who has canny knowledge about politics. You don't get to that point without having it. I think that he is operating here, though, with an attitude that it's just a little bit too online. And so I wrote a piece this week at the Daily Wire. The trend right now for millennial parents is to give their kids a 90s, send them outside a ton more, you know, get rid of screens, you know, less and less time with content that's been made since the 90s and let them have more freedom. I think the vice president needs a break from being online. Oh, interesting. We'll come back online just a moment. Stand by, Ben. Welcome back, America. Happy music, happy Jack for Ben Dominic, making sure that he knows. We know he liked the Who. We'll give him some old stuff. Ben, when JD goes on Joe Rogan, I think he's making an aesthetic appeal. I haven't even read it yet or seen it. I think he's just making a statement that I can do Joe Rogan to the Youngs. Do you think that's part of it? I think it's a major part of it. He's basically saying, hey, the flex here is I have the capacity to sit down and speak intelligently about all these different topics with a guy who basically... You know, my favorite comparison of Joe Rogan is that he interviews somebody as if he is like a Mongol warlord from the steps. He was just talking about him. I thought you were going to say Tommy's Mothers. Joe's tree. Why tree so tall? Explains Joe. You know, that kind of thing, which is actually, I think, a talent to a certain degree. It's something that. You know, I think if we still had it, you know, would... I hear there are lizard people under the trees. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, but the other thing that I think he's doing there is, you know, he's sending a message about sort of how he will be different than this current Trump administration. That's the part of this that I don't like because I feel like he's almost, he's just jumped ahead. He's acting as if he's the candidate, as if he's potentially, you know, just like I'm the foregone conclusion of the nominee, and I'm telling you the kind of... Very, very dangerous. I would have. Very, very dangerous. You've got a flank on your left. It's not left wing. It's a left flank of the right wing. And that's... That's open. Give me at least two minutes on Rahm Emanuel, Ben, because I think that was a watermark, a high watermark of anti-Israel sentiment in the Democratic Party. When you get the mayor of Israel, Rahm Emanuel's father fought in the War of Liberation in 1948 to save the state of Israel to get him to basically hammer Benjamin Netanyahu, but he's really hammering all, because Bennett's not going to be different. Eisencott's not going to be different. They're not going to withdraw from the West Bank. So he's just beating them up all of them.

No, and I think that you're correct about this, and it really, the sadness about this to me is that I really do believe that Israel is very close, and we've seen it happen with domestic issues in the past. Hugh, when it came to the NRA and when it came to the pro-life issue, there have been points in our lifetimes when that was something that was a bipartisan issue where you could get people on board, you could get people from the other side to come across. I truly feel like that Israel has unfortunately ended up in its space, despite all the efforts that the people who have funded different candidates and tried to work. you know, have tried to do, you know, within American domestic politics, they are becoming a monopartisan issue. And that is a dangerous place to be as a country, regardless of what that country is like, and particularly when it comes to Israel. So, look, I am. I'm depressed by what I am seeing. I hope that there is going to be some pushback against it. We will see what, you know, comes out in terms of the remaining primaries, especially Michigan. But I think that one of the things that we can take away from the last essentially a couple of years that have followed October 7 is that the shift that has happened among young people in America and therefore more sizable among the Democrats than the Republicans. has turned Israel into a monopartisan issue where even people who have supported it in the past have frankly a slowing willingness to say anything publicly. They try to keep their heads down. And you saw that vote, I mean, play out in the House when it came to Thomas Massie's proposal. The idea that you would have 100 plus Democrats going along with that, you know, it just boggles the mind of the way that they used to be. Deeply troubling is it's our most important strategic ally. Got nothing to do with religious tradition, nothing to do with anything else. We need them. They project power and they have the will to do so, and they're on our team. Ben Dominic from the Daily Wire, Fox News contributor of the Big Ben Podcast. Thank you, my friend. Follow him on X at B. Dominic. My friends, you've probably seen the headlines are worse. Your latest bill. Big wireless is raising rates again. That means you could be paying more for the same service. or getting pushed into a price here plan you simply do not need. That's not right. You can switch to consumer cellular right now and save an additional $50 when you go to consumer cellular.com slash you and use the promo code Hugh 50. And if you happen to be over the age of 50, listen to this, you can get a single line with unlimited talk, text, and data for just $355 a month. Remember, their numbers, $800, 411, 4454. 800 411 4454, 800 411 4454. Consumer cellular ranks number one for network coverage and for customer satisfaction according to ACSI. And when you switch, you'll talk to an actual human being based right here in the United States. No long-term contracts, no hidden fees. You can keep your phone or choose a new one. Get an additional $50 off when you switch today using promo code Hugh 50. And do not forget if you are over 50.

You get a single line, unlimited, talk, text, and data for $35 a month. Visit consumercellular.com slash hue and use promo code Hugh 50 or call 1-800-41144 and use promo code Hugh 50. The images coming out of Venezuela are heartbreaking. Powerful earthquakes have left entire community in rubble. Families are already struggling. Suddenly lost their homes, apartments, even access to clean water, the necessities needed to survive. Right now, children are sleeping in makeshift shelters. Parents are searching for food, clean water, basic safety for their family. That's why food for the poor is responding immediately. Working through trusted local partners already serving these communities. They're providing emergency food, drinking water, hygiene supplies, other life-saving assistance. Relief can't wait. Every hour matters. The people of Venezuela need our prayers, and they also need our help. From your mobile phone, text Hewitt, H-U-I-T-T, to 5-1-555. Again, text Hewitt, H-E-W-I-T-T to 5155. If you send a text, you'll receive a reply with a secure link where you can make your emergency gift to help the people have Venezuela. Together, we can be the hands and feet of Christ, bring hope, relief, God's love to families who have lost so much. I'm Hughitt, and I thank you. Welcome back, America. I'm so pleased to welcome back author Daniel Silva, whose brand-new bestseller Ransom is fabulous. And I can't emphasize how I often compliment Daniel Silva about his books. This one is great. Daniel Silva, welcome back. I was trying to think of how to describe this to people. And I'm going to say it's a counter-servalance escapade like the Lisbon. game, only for a reader, because the misdirection is wild in this one. So have you heard that from other Silva addicts? You know, I actually last evening, I was doing an event in suburban Philadelphia, and one of the audience members was questioning me about the complexity of the plot and how it sort of seemed to effortlessly tie together in the end. And how did I do that, given the fact that I don't outline my books to begin with it? And it was interesting trying to explain it. But yeah, it's a, it's a fast-paced summer read. It's really entertaining. It's part kidnapped drama. It is part global thriller. And it does deal with one of the most serious challenges facing the West right now. We all know that Russia is. waging a war of conquest in Ukraine. What is less well known is that Russia is engaged in a years-long campaign of sabotage and subversion against the countries of Western Europe. And one of their most effective weapons in their arsenals right now are drones.

So I want people to understand. Daniel Silva knows the GRU, which is the old military intelligence, KGB being the equivalent of the CIA and the military intelligence being like our defense intelligence agency. And the GRU, as you describe it, Daniel Silva, is the brute force operation. And they're not subtle. And MI6 doesn't like them, or at least the folks out at the cottage don't like them as much as they like the KGB. I wouldn't say that they like the KGB. You know, the KGB is the SVR is the equivalent of the CIA now. During Soviet times, it was almost its own separate state in a way, and it had border functions, internal security functions. I forget how many directorates there were of the old KGB. But now the new SVR is the foreign. intelligence operate. By the way, it does its fair share of wet work and other special operations. But the GRU, specifically unit 29155 of the GRU, is really a sledgehammered. It has one mission, and that is to destroy liberal democracy as we know it. Vladimir Putin. views the very existence of democratic, I'm saying small L, small D liberal democratic countries in the West as an existential threat to Russia. And he is trying to do everything possible to undermine and subvert them and destroy them, destroy NATO. And in the short term, though, he's trying to punish the countries that have provided. aid and sustenance to Ukraine. And I tell you, at the top of his list, Britain is always there, but the country of Denmark, he has a special loathing for Denmark. I thought that came through. I did the capabilities of our Western European allies. During the longer part of this, which I'll play in two weeks, I'll put on the podcast immediately for Silva addicts who want to get a teaser, then go get ransom and read it. You can get the podcast today, and then after I'm back next week, the week after, we'll play the rest of this interview. But I want to read you from your Pasternak quote, page 214. Remember, you must never under any circumstances to spare to hope and do act. These are our duties and misfortune. How long have you been waiting to use that in a Cabrero-A-Lan novel? You know, it appeared in, it was the epigraph actually for the collector. Yes. And I reprised it. I reprised it in this circumstance to... You know, that the, I don't, I don't want to give too much away, but it's a character named Alice Winter, is a very important character in this novel. And I wanted to, you know, she comes across as someone who's just sort of interested in being rich and a social media influencer. And then, but actually.

when we get to know her a little better, she's a highly intelligent person. And she used that quote. So I reprised it for fans of that previous book. And I want people to look forward to you. I'm not going to tell you much about the character. But there is Oscar, and Oscar is sort of like the new goat that you know from all the Gabriel Alon novels. So Oscar's there for a little bit of fun. I want to know, though, in the short segment, we have two and a half minute left. Is Proteus real? I've asked you that before, but I can't remember what your answer is. That's a way to hack you the phone. Yes, it is real. I gave it a different name and a different company. But yes, the way it's used is a little different. But, you know, look, malware, which is what it is, it's very, very common now. You know, we can't live without our phones, but if it were up to me, I would not have one anymore. These things, they have our life on them. And it's so easy to turn it into just a little spy that follows you around. Trust me, everyone in China, their phones are hacked by the government. And so, you know, that capability does exist to turn your phone into a full-time surveillance device. So you're using the microphone to listen. You're using the camera to watch. You're reading text messages. You're reading emails. You're monitoring browsing, you're looking at location data. You know, it's a stunning amount of information that we carry around in our pocket about ourselves. In fact, you get so much tradecraft from ransom, especially new info on gate analysis, new info on surveillance techniques. You ought to read it just to make yourself prepared. But it's a fabulous thriller when I come back after break. And I'll put it on the weekend pod. I'll play it in a week from now. We're going to get more deeper into the plot without giving anything away. But I want to tell the audience there's one perfect way to do this book. Get the hardcover and then indulge yourself and also get the audiobook. So I read the first three quarters in hard copy. And then I got the audiobook and I slowed myself down. I was obliged to slow myself down. And it's much better that way to read the thriller to the end. Has anyone else done that? Daniel Silva, we got one minute. Did anyone do it that way? I am. ever surprised to return to last night someone tells me that every every year they they they do the print version and the audio version i'm very lucky to have an extraordinary actor who does the work on the books um and yes so you're not alone oh i'm so glad but it does work that way you don't go too fast you enjoy and this one is so riveting Daniel Silva's Ransom everywhere, number one New York Times bestseller, almost certainly. Keep listening to podcast or come back in two weeks and I'll play the rest of my interview with Daniel Silva. Stay tuned. I am back now with Daniel Silva, author of the brand new bestseller, Ransom. I think it's his 25th, Gabriel Alon novel. I was describing it to the fetching Mrs. Hewitt last night as a mix between a college reunion and a funeral for a loved one.

So that the funeral for the loved one, you see some friends. You only see like once every 20 years. And then the college reunion, you see them every five years, your best friends. And then there's some characters you don't want to see. So a lot of people are back. Some people are missing. Some people are back. I'm not going to give anything away. But since you don't write with an outline, do you at least begin with the number of characters you want to bring back for this episode? I don't want to correct the host, if you could believe it, it's the 26th Gabriel Lawdonoff. Oh my gosh. I know, I know. And it's my 29th. So next year's a huge milestone year for me. Look, I have said this many, many times. I shall say it again. I have... try to outline a book. It doesn't work for me. The finished product never looks the way I outlined it. So I always thought it was a waste of time. And what really happens is that I tend to think of my first draft as actually a very long detailed outline. And then I turn that that first draft into a second draft and ultimately a third and fourth draft. And that's how I do it. But I do. I think in this book, I'd say that I saw at least 100 pages before I started writing. I didn't start with absolutely nothing. By the time I finished the writing, finished the first chapter, I had it all figured out. I knew what the twist was going to be at the end. So I figured this one out a little earlier than I sometimes do. Sometimes I like to just go for a ride with Gabriel and experience. things through his point of view and work it out with him. I'll tell you, though, the Lisbon game, and we're not going to tell people what the losing game is, with its references, it's like a World Cup summer book, because it's got own goals and it's got regulation play in the Lisbon game. Was that on your mind when you were doing this? No, it wasn't, but they are European characters, British characters, and so I did borrow some football terminology. I think Ongold did get in there in regulation play, got into it. But that was written long before the World Cup, obviously. Okay, well, it's nicely timed. I did borrow some serms. I do want to talk about something that we can discuss because it's an actual episode from history. We won't tell how it fits in. I had completely forgotten about the IRA mortar attack on number 10 downing in 1991. It had gone from my head, Daniel Silva, because, you know, you sleep on one side long enough and everything drains out. How did, was that on your mind when you sat down or did that come in the course of the, just something to educate the readers about? No, no. I mean, I wanted to, without giving too much away.

You know, this, that aspect of the plot was inspired by a series of real life events last autumn. You will remember that Copenhagen airport was shut down for several hours by a drone swarm last September. They had to close the airport for six hours or so. It resulted in a spillover of travel disruptions all across the continent. But in the days that followed, there were drones, swarms at other civilian airports and at Danish military bases. Danish Prime Minister was so alarmed by this situation that she came this close to calling up the reserves. They never... used Russia flat out. But if you listen to their statements, it's clear that they believe and they know that Russia was behind it. And what was interesting was that there was this previously scheduled emergency summit that was supposed to take place in Copenhagen just a couple of days after this. And the Danish intelligence service was so alarmed that the Russians were going to try to attack this summit with drone, that they closed the airspace. They laid their hands on every... drone kit and signal jammer, anti-drone kit, I should say, and signal jammer they could lay their hands on to try to protect that meeting. And that was the inspiration for the plot. And the very important meeting that takes place in my novel takes place at number 10. And I wanted to remind people. that number 10 had been attacked before. John Major is a dear friend and a longtime reader. Oh. And I slid a, I slid a little reference in there. Yes, he got back to me just a couple of days ago. And so he was there. And he, you know, he's in the cabinet room with his entire cabinet. when that mortar hit. I mean, and windows blew out and everyone is diving under the table and he reacted with such extraordinary calm. in that moment. And I wanted to sort of pay tribute to him. But yeah, that's a real incident. And I referenced it for a very specific reason. I wish that we had British Prime Ministers anywhere near like the British Prime Ministers you invent for your book. And like Mr. Major. In fact, you even got a... A wonderful compliment of Margaret Thatcher in here. She has a touch of Mrs. Thatcher. She scares me more than Mrs. Thatcher about a different European leader, and we won't say which country, but it's an invented European leader. I thought the only thing we disagree about, Daniel Silva, about Russia, because they're a menace, is that the breach in between America and NATO.

is real. But I think it's because they took their holiday from history longer than we did. I pulled all the defense spending GDP numbers. Germany down to 2.4%. France is below that. Finland's at 2.9%. That's pretty good. The Netherlands at 2.6%. Great Britain's at 2.3%. They couldn't even get a destroyer to the Sea of Oman, much less the Persian Gulf. They got to get more serious about this because Vladimir Putin's a killer. They are serious about this. I can't remember which chapter it is. Oh, gosh, I'm going to let that ring, okay. But Graham Seymour is working on a document that he's about to deliver to the joint intelligence committee, which is the overseers of the British intelligence community. And he's telling them, we will be at Russia in the very near future. And I put that in the book. And I... debated it until the very end. I said, I'm leaving it in there. And I don't know if you noticed a piece in the Times of London last weekend that said they've now European intelligence services and political leaders are in agreement. It'll probably be, we'll be in a shooting war by 2030. Mark Rutte, the NATO General Secretary, if you read the quote at the end of the book, talking about how this war is going to be along the lines of the ones that our grandparents lived through. They are convinced that as soon as Vladimir Putin is done in whatever fashion in Ukraine, his economy, it's a war economy, he can't make a transition back to a peacetime economy. There he is. He's going to continue with the wartime economy. going to rebuild his military and probably go straight for estonia and then we're in the shooting war and then what happens are we going to let him take it are we going to are we going to are we going to be in a full-fledged war and will the united states be a part of that war interesting questions I don't think we will let them take it. I believe that Poland, with its 4.3% GDP and Ukrainian technology, Lithuanians at 4%, Latvia 3.7, Estonia at 3.4. I know, I just met with someone out in California, just came back from Latvia, where our ambassador is Lisa Arjaroz. They're ready. I mean, they're getting ready for this. And Poland may be the most prepared. Well, Finland is the most prepared NATO ally. So the Nordic country. The countries on the front line are ready, and Ukraine is inventing stuff left and right. That's the key word, the frontline countries. And the other thing that you said is Poland. And I think the polls could probably beat the Russians practically single-handedly.

discussing this very issue with one of my advisors who helped me with the drone technology on this book. There's no way that the Russians are going to be, to leave the United States out of it. The European powers can handle them on their own right now. They are re-arming. Yes, Britain is lagging behind. They have a terrible economic situation. Their politics are in disarray, but the frontline countries are ready to go. and they're not going to be taken over by the Russians. But the question is, will it stay conventional? What are your thoughts on that? I don't think Vladimir Putin is so stupid. He has children. I always take some solace in the fact that they're atheists and they have children as opposed to Iranians who are millennial as 12ers, and they don't really care if the world blows up. Everyone else, the atheists that have children, all they have is the country to go forward, but it's the theocrat fanatics in Iran I worry about. I want to go back, though, to a couple of fun things in this book. Another World Cup reference or football reference in European style, D.I. Peel gets to play in the Premier League. I was so happy to see him back. And I nurse in the back of my mind. you're going to start another series with D.I. Peel that can be made into a BBC series that goes for, you know, a season at a time like Shetland, which somebody watches in the Silva household, right? Either you or Jamie watch Shetland because it's in the book. We watch it side by side. We're shutting an addicts. And I had to put a reference in the book. I thought it was great. So are we. And I also like the fact a frequent guest on the program over the years has been Peter Baker. The only thing I found even slightly unbelievable that anyone in the Trump White House would leak to Peter Baker, much less maybe they do. He's a fine reporter and he's never played a partisan game in his life. But his wife plays a partisan game. And so it's an interesting bit of, did Peter call you yet? Oh, yes. Peter and are very good friends. Very good friends. And I don't do that often. I don't name people by name. But I wanted to give a tip of the hat to Peter. So I let him break the news that there's going to be an important summit at Downing Street that the British were hoping to keep quiet for a couple more days. Well, let me ask you about, I learn things every time you write a book. a mountain set in Switzerland, inhabited by the, or Austria, I guess, inhabited by the deathless soul of Pontch's pilot. I have never heard of that in my life. Where did you find that? That's a legend in Christian myth. Where did that come from? Yeah, it's Pilatus, it's named for him. It's right near Interlaken. I wrote a biography of, a speculative biography of

Punches Pilots in a book called The Order. And I think I did reference Pilatus in that. So, you know, in early Christian literature, you know, Pilate was described as this deathless soul. For his eternal punishment, that he sort of wandered the woods of Europe. uh you know uh you know mortally uh grieving, guilt-ridden for what had happened. It's the Jacob Marley of the Silva books. And so, but then one legend is that he inhabited, he's lived up on the top of Mount Pilates up there. People used to claim that they would see him sitting on a rock weeping in this sort of sulfa spring up there. Anyway, that's Mount Pilatus. Next time you're interlock and it's right there. Well, where do you get your mountaineering? As I recall, you're not yourself a mountaineering. I'm not. I've climbed one 14,000 foot peak, and I called it Quits, Mount Sherman, in Colorado. That's too hard. Where do you learn your mountaineering stuff? Because that figures in the book. Well, Christopher Keller is a world-class mountaineer, and that's been referenced in his character from the beginning. And so, you know, I try to find, you know, first-person accounts by mountaineers of specific climes. And so Christopher lived for many years. And of Corsica, of course, actually has some serious mountains on it. And so, you know, I approach it like any other aspect of the book. I try to get it right. And someday I'm going to write a book with Christopher that maybe steal a little bit of the Iger sanction and write a mountaineering thriller. That was one of my earliest thrillers. It's really, he was fabulous. He was fabulous. He was just an extraordinary writer, Trevalium. Let me go then to a sapling, Harry Wilson. Now, Daniel Silva doesn't introduce people by accident. They come back, and people will be, like I say, it's a college reunion or a family funeral. Harry Wilson shows up. He's not around very much, but you don't do that, do you? You don't introduce people for no reason. I mean, we've got the factotum for Graham Seymour. You mentioned Graham Seymour's in the book, so I'll go with that. Factotum, we got the people at the cottage. Again, silver readers will know maybe they'll remember what I'm talking about. It's wonderful. It's comfortable to find these people. But when you bring someone in like DiP, he shows up, oh, he was a kid 10 books ago.

Or 20 books ago. And now he's... 25 books ago. Was he in the first book? The second book? First book. Okay. So he's back and he's getting older and he's got skills. Now we've got Harry. Do we expect Harry back? I think so. You know, I just needed... I needed to move the characters. And what... I hate throwaway lines. I hate throwaway scenes. I always try to make each scene a little special in... in some way. And so I created a tiny little character and created some interaction between the sapling and the legends and to try to just bring him into sharper relief. I can't imagine we won't see Harry. His name is too good to let him fly there. And Mariela Cruz is too competent. We won't even tell people where Mariella Cruz is, but she's too competent to let her disappear. Is that? Is that a good expectation on my part? You know, when I was writing those scenes, I actually thought, boy, I would like to carry this character with Gabriel a little longer. And in the end, I had to let her fall by the wayside as the second act began. But I just loved that character. And again, I... I just did a couple little things with her. You know, her hand was all swollen and scraped, and it turns out that she's a real badass. And there's a couple of lines of dialogue when she and Gabriel are driving that are to be some of the funniest things that he's ever said. They were great together. It's a great thing. But I appreciate that you go. You are aware of what happens in resort places. Because I live not far from one. And they have Romanian seasonal staff. And I do not know where they go. I don't know where they live. And what you describe, I have never experienced, but it made perfect sense to me. Have you been to such a place? Sure. I mean, you can't, you can't not go to be in such a place in places like the south of France where, you know, you see the dormitory-like settings if they're lucky. But in this case, and this has been well publicized. You know, Abitha's population, I'm going to get it wrong, but it goes from a tiny little bit in the winter, and then all of a sudden it explodes. And it's had the situation happening on Nantucket, for example. You know, essential services workers in Nantucket can't afford to live there. So they are commuting by the ferry every single day. And I'm so sorry about that phone. Don't worry about it. I'm in a hotel room.

And I just wanted to point that out. And it said there's a character that we find in a homeless encamp. They're all workers. They're all working their fingers to the bone, but they can't afford to live in the place where they work. It's impossible. And it's a very special scene. Now, I want to turn to some of the technology you introduce this to, and there's a lot of drones, which I'm going to come back to, because I believe you are correct. In fact, someone else who is an actual real spy told me a long time ago that in 25 years no one will live in the White House because the president of the United States can't be in a known location because of drone technology. And that shadow falls across your book. And it's true. What Ukraine is doing because of necessity. They were outside of Vladimir Putin's villa by about 100 miles when they sunk part of the Russian fleet this last week in the Sea of Azov. So it's really not that much of a stretch to threaten everyone and everything in the world, is it? No. I can't remember the exact phrase that I use, but no political leader is going to be safe. You won't be able to go out and sit in the back garden of No. 10 Downey Street because the drone could come over any time and kill you. The South Lawn of the White House, I mean, I know that President Obama like to go out there and play basketball with his friends. Forget about that. And the anti-drone kits are only so. effective. You know, I didn't use a tethered drone in my climactic finish here. But, I mean, you know, you know about tethered drones. They have a tiny little filament of fiber optic cable. It could have several kilometers of it. You're not going to block a signal there. And that drone's going to find its target. It could be a drone that drops an ordinance or it can be a kamikaze drone like I had. in this book. We are, the Pandora's Box analogy is overused, but I shall use it again. We have opened Pandora's Box. And I don't think the world is ever going to be the same again. And I think you're right. I think we're going to come to a place in the very near future where our political leaders and very senior government officials have to stay. Their whereabouts have to be unknown. They won't be able to move around and they can't walk around in public. Did you note this is not in ransom because it's not set in the Middle East. Seronic is the new drone boat maker for America, and America sent three drones into Bandar Abbas last week to blow up a submarine and two submarine pens. Did that, did you catch that? Daniel Sylvia, you're on book tour for ransom, so I'm not sure you're catching everything that's going on in the war, but there's a lot that's going on in the war. There is.

Most of it is not really great. And this, you know, how we got into this war in the first place and it was so unprepared for the possibility that the Iranians were going to expand the war. I don't understand how we made that mistake. But it's something that I encountered actually talking to Israeli politicians. You know, they had this thought, that they'd reached this conclusion that we could hit the Iranians really, really hard and that they wouldn't respond. And it's, to me, it always seemed delusional. And I could tell you that people in Mossad who, who, you know, worked the Iran file, they did not think that. But I think that, you know, Elements of Lakoud and the Israeli right somehow convinced themselves that the Iranians would not target their Gulf neighbors and would not shut down international commerce. But that's exactly what happened. Dan, are you surprised? We talked since 10-7, but we haven't talked since the Iran war began. I'm a little bit stunned that Hezbollah was able to, for example, under the Crusader Castle, three miles from the Israel border, they were able to create a mile of granite tunnel. And the Israelis and the Americans didn't know it was there. And they've got these tunnels in Gaza, it's sand. You can dig through sand. But in Lebanon, it's just granite. And they have been doing that. And we haven't been able to see him from the sky in Israel and been able to penetrate Hezbollah and know that it's there. Are you surprised by that? No, no, this is a serious, serious organization. You know, they've been around now since the 80s. We sort of came to know them after the Berlin, excuse me, Beirut Barracks bombing when they killed 241 of our Marines. I think that explosion that went off was the single largest explosion on planet Earth since World War II. It was an extraordinary device that they assembled and delivered to the target. You know, this is a serious organization with incredible weaponry. And, you know, they should not be underestimated. But no, look, it's probably easier for them to tunnel. They have to worry about collapses the way they have, you know, all the tunnels in Gaza have to be reinforced all the time. They can go into solid rock and hide their stuff. I want to go back to one more bit of technology. Deepfakes. The week we're taping this, the vice president gave a three-hour interview with Joe Rogan, which I have not watched it. I've never seen a Rogan interview. I don't know that I can deal with a three-hour interview by anyone of anyone. But.

He did a three-hour interview. Are we not doing three hours now? No, we're not. We do 40 minutes, and that's usually our time. Normally we're making it into one program on July 4th, but logistics didn't work this year, and we'll just play it out. But the vice president goes on, so I see a bunch of clips online. I don't believe any of them, Danny. Do you? Until I watch the original that's like water stamped, I'm not going to believe it. Wow. So that's where you are already. Yes. You're questioning. It's interesting. Yep. That's where we are. And these things are very, very good. And it is only a matter of time before we have a situation where, I mean, you don't have to go and stage a fake propaganda movie anymore. You just sit at a computer and do it. And, you know, we're going to have Estonians. killing Russians or something, some sort of provocation for the invasion that's going to happen in the near future. The drones, deep fakes, AI. Life's getting interesting, isn't it? I'm glad that I'm going to retire in two and a half years, Daniel Silva. I hope you never do because I want to do in my retirement. But I want to know, are you worried about it? I don't think AI can do Gabrielle Law novels. I don't think an AI machine can produce a ransom novel. Do you? No. No. I do not. But they can produce... I mean, a couple of writers have acknowledged that they're using AI to produce their books or portions of their books. It's not something that I'm, it's too much fun. I don't know why you would use AI to write your book for you. It just seems ridiculous. But it's inevitable that a fully AI novel is going to. enter the bloodstream of American publishing at some point in the near future. Just like we have, you know, full AI music, these fake AI bands that are popping up on Spotify and Apple music. It's just inevitable, I think. So I want to, I've asked you this question probably every year since we've started doing this, which is probably 20 years now. We may have started seven or eight years into the series and devoted a full show to the first seven or eight books. And so I wanted to keep. keep the question current. Alon ought to be a television series like Fowda. I learned yesterday from an Israeli blogger who interviewed me that Fowda is about ready to release and they are dealing with 10-7 in the first two episodes, but you don't have to watch them and you can still watch the series. And they've made that known to the Israeli public. And I won't watch it because I wouldn't watch the film. Did you watch the film, by the way? Did you watch the Israeli government approved 45-minute film of 10-7?

No. I did not. I didn't know it. I didn't know it existed. What is the 45 minute? When they want to brief. That got by me. Yeah. When they want to brief foreign journalists who doubt what happened on 10-7, they have a 45-minute version of what Hamas filmed that day. It's all Hamas footage. So it's not IDF footage. That I know about. Okay. I do know about that. Yeah. And so I have never watched it. So is this ever, is Alon ever coming to the little or the big screen ever? I don't know. You know, I had what I thought was a perfect deal a few years ago. And, you know, look, it's more common for something to be optioned and not made than it is for it to be optioned and made. So I've sold the book, the series, four or five times, I think. It just have never been able to get it across the finish line. Right now, I retain the rights. And, you know, there are conversations that are happening. you know, regularly, some serious, some not so serious. And we shall see. I am at this stage more than comfortable to let him exist on the page. You know, there's no Lucas Davenport series either on television, a great character by my colleague, John Stanford. You know, it is what it is. And I think that right now, in the current political situation, I'm not sure the time is right for a Gabriel Law series. Well, the Slow Horses series has become such a magnificent hit that everybody waits for. And the lioness has come out in Fowda, I mentioned. I just think it's such a natural. Let me close this way. You just mentioned another great thriller writer. I think you hold the title right now. You're like Ali. Someone's going to knock you out someday, but not yet. And Ransom will sell more than any other thriller this summer, so no one's going to knock you out for at least another year. Do you ever gather at a place like Wilton's with the way the art world gathers at Wilton's? Do the thriller writers at the top of the game ever gather together just to relax? Uh, you know, we bump into each other now and again. Um, um, um, I had a wonderful evening. I guess it's my second night of tour. My friend Amor Tolls interviewed me at the Strand. So there's two writers who got together in a Wilton's-like setting and talked about our work. There were 300 people watching us to it. So, you know, our schedules, you know, don't really allow it. Everyone's on deadline. I tell you, all.

Frankly, all of my writer friends are of the nonfiction variety. The aforementioned Peter Baker. Bob Woodward is a dear friend. You know, Shane Harris is a dear friend. All of my friends are what I like to describe as real writers. You know, I'm the guy who just making the stuff up. You're just making... Real journalist happy because it's something in the summer. Daniel Silva, there's a book tour underway. I appreciate the time in the middle of it. It's over at Danielsilvabooks.com. You can find out where Daniel's going to be if you want to go and get a copy of Ransom Sign. Congratulations on another number one New York Times bestseller. And keep the street going for as long as I'm alive. I want to keep reading this in the summertime, Daniel. My best of your wonderful wife and safety and success on your tour. Thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much. Thank you. You bet. In a world that screams for your attention, there is a place that invites you to peace. You don't need a building. You don't need a choir. You just need to turn your heart to Air One. Air One. Songs that heal. Lyrics that pray for you when you don't have the words. From Lauren Daigle to elevation worship. And more. This isn't just radio. It's worship for the everyday. Escape the noise and worship now. Download the Air One app. Ask your smart speaker to play Air One or visit Air One.com. Air One. Worship. Now.