'Your City Could Be Better': Philly's Bold Nightlife Experiment — Presented By City Cast Nashville

This is your city could be better because it could be. I'm David Floss. If you love your city and still complain about it, you're in the right place. Can you remember the last time you were out until 4 a.m.? I cannot. Maybe it was with some crying, desperate to sleep baby decades ago. Maybe it was in college. But even people like me who are early bird specials know that among us we have night owls. There are people who don't get started until midnight, people who can keep going and going and going. And Philadelphia. has an experiment this summer to serve those night owls, to delight those night owls, it's going to allow bars to stay open until 4 a.m. in June and July to accommodate the crowds of people, the surging crowds of people expected in the City of Brotherly Love for the World Cup Games there and for the semi-quincentennial, the celebration of the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. So today on your city could be better. Would your city be better if it allowed... really late nights and more partying. CityCat's Philly host Trinanea Rhee. Welcome to your city could be better. When was the last time you were out until 4 a.m.? David, thank you so much for having me. The last time I was out at 4 a.m., the year was 2010. The city was New York. I was single. No kids. 20-something. And my friends from Philly, they actually came down to visit. And I took them to a restaurant, a Jamaican restaurant in Manhattan. And we just danced the night away. Afterwards, I ran to an ice cream truck because I needed something on my stomach. I know it's like ice cream, what? And I know for sure we saw the sunrise at 6 a.m. when we crawled out of the subway back to my apartment. Can I do that nowadays? Absolutely not. But like it's so memorable for you. It was like a night. It was amazing night for you. Okay. All right. So maybe that's going to happen for thousands of people in Philadelphia. So what time are bars in Philadelphia up until right now? So the latest ones stay open till 2 a.m., right? And there are a few after-hour clubs sprinkled in various parts of the city that might stay open after. But generally speaking, the last call is around 1, 1.30. And then it's kind of like, you know, you don't have to stay here, but you got to get out. And so the law says they've got to shut down on two. Yes. And does the city, like if you walk around downtown Philly or to, you know, cool neighborhoods in Philly now. You probably don't know this because it sounds like you're like me. You go to bed at 10 or something. But in what time does the city kind of shut down? Is it really going till 2 on Fridays and Saturdays or not really? It really shuts down earlier. It depends on what we're talking about. So kitchens at the restaurants close around 10 p.m. And then the bars are like two. If you go to like a neighborhood bar around the corner from your house.

They might close around midnight or even 11. But yeah, generally speaking, I would say the nightlife that does exist, it's definitely 2 a.m. And so do people feel like Philly is a good place to party? It's just different. It's different from since the pandemic. I mean, we've struggled just to get like businesses popping during the day. And the nightlife kind of went along with it. Some places that, you know, we used to party in the clubs we used to go to, they just don't exist anymore. They never came back after the pandemic. There were a lot of concerns about safety over the years. And then we got to talk about those food options. A lot of the wawas are gone. The big wawas, they're gone. And so you say Wawa like everyone knows what you're talking about. Just explain what Wawa is what I would call a 7-Eleven. It's like a 20. Yeah, it's a 24-hour place. You can get gas. You can get some hoagies. You can get, um. anything you might need to sustain yourself after 4 a.m. And I just want to highlight our, Philly's got a nighttime mayor, Rahim Manning. So he's the city's director of nighttime economy. And so the city has been working on so many different, like creative ways to kind of get things like jump started again. So tell us a little bit about what's happening. So in June and July, bars will be allowed to stay up until four. All bars, the whole city, what's going to happen there? So Philly bars, restaurants, and hotels, they can extend their closing times from 2 a.m. to 4 a.m. So this is happening between June 11th and July 20th. But they have to apply for a Philadelphia 250 permit from the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. Owners and managers have to also attend training sessions in person. And the application was 500 bucks. And that was all due April 14th. So if you didn't do it, it's too late. The other part of this, like I said, is the training. And to be approved, bars need to be up to date with their taxes. They have to be good standing with all city regulatory agencies, right? So license and inspections, the public health department, basically have your paperwork done. But these trainings, they are actually calling this the Liberty Bell Safe Certification Program. And the trainings consist of conflict resolution, sexual harassment, DEI, active shooter awareness, human trafficking, crowd management, exit and dispersal planning, exterior safety monitoring, and health code compliance. It does sound quite elaborate. It also sounds like probably a pretty good idea, probably pretty useful to have that training anyway. Yeah. Totally. So what are the main reasons why Philadelphia decided to do this? Who pushed it? How did it become a thing? David, this actually was a bipartisan bill signed by our Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. And if you know anything about Pennsylvania politics, you know that our lawmakers do not agree on many things. But they did recognize that tourism.

has been down in recent years. And so there are so many big bets on these big events this year. So the projections are that increased tourism, more dollars flowing through our economy. And like I said, the bill was bipartisan, no-brainer to help businesses capitalize off this moment. And this actually wasn't the first time that Harrisburg granted. us this extension. Back in 2016, when Philly hosted the Democratic National Convention, these establishments were allowed to stay open until 4 a.m., but you had to have hosted an official DNC event. So it's going to be interesting. Some bars are choosing not to apply. They don't see how this summer is going to just magically change their lives financially and some question even if all this effort is even worth it. Yeah, I mean, it would just be two extra hours. It's not a huge difference. Right. If you can already stay up until two. And so this was not the city itself. This was the state had to change the law for this. Right. Because our liquor laws are connected to the state. But it's just for Philly. It's not for the whole state. No, just for Philly at this time. And what is it that's happening in Philly that makes this 4M close make sense? Is it, you know, for example, if you're coming to see the... Liberty Bell, it wouldn't have thought it would matter whether you could go out until two or four. I don't think like your history buffs are not 4 a.m. people. I wouldn't have thought. Maybe they are. Totally. So the idea was that these extended hours would get folks to get a few more extra hours like the shift workers, get more money flowing into our neighborhoods, not just center city. And because we're going to get an influx of tourists, the idea is that folks need to be able to watch all of the games of the FIFA World Cup. And so, you know, some of the games actually are going to start as late as midnight. Right. And so. The idea is keep folks at the bars, keep them, you know, keep them with the cold beers, keep them cheering. And a lot of our visitors from around the world internationally, their culture is to, you know, start the party at midnight at 1 a.m. And so keep the bars open is sort of the idea. So the people who advocate for this. And who've supported this. Sounds like it's bipartisan support. What is it they say is going to happen? You've mentioned more shifts for workers. What else is going to happen? Happy or tourists? Yeah, happy a tourist. And also, like, right now, our city lawmakers and state lawmakers are courting to get us to get the DNC back in 2028. And so, like, again, it's a big bet to keep these big events coming into the city. when you and I started talking about this, you mentioned some drawback. So what do people say?

are the drawbacks of keeping bars open till four. What is the difference between keeping bars open till four as opposed to two? Why is that going to be maybe a problem or not as good as it seems? Yeah. So, David, you know that Philly B, you know, Philly complaints. And one of the complaints is about transit, right? And as we're recording this, SEPTA has no plan to extend services past 1 a.m. And so there's a deal right now, Airbnb made with the city so that fans can ride the Broad Street line for free after the games. But what about the nighttime crowd after 2 a.m.? A lot of folks say that there's not going to be a lot of public transit. So then you would have to shift over to ride share. It could be good for ride share drivers, right? Prices might surge. They might get extra money in their pocket, but they have to stay up until four. 4.30, 445, 5. If you're shipping people to the Burbs, South Jersey or even Delaware. But what's wrong with that? Like if the ride share drivers make some money, the people who have gone to the bars are like, oh, I need to get home. So they're willing to pay for it. They're tourists. They're putting out money to pay for it. That seems fine. Why is that? Have you ever left a Phillies game, a Flyers game, a Sixers game, an Eagles game? The traffic is horrendous because there's not a lot of like, options right now with SEPTA. I have never left any of those games because I would never go to a Philly sports event because I'm a regular normal person. Well, the traffic is horrendous, right? And we've got a lot of small neighborhood street. But at 4 a.m., the traffic's not going to be horrendous at 4 a.m. It's going to be, you know, there are going to be people. There are going to be some people. It's not going to be thousands and thousands of people who are at the bars at 4 a.m. It's going to be some extra people. Will there be thousands of people? driving, doing ride share, those people have to stay up. They might not be night owls. It could be a problem, right? I'm just saying it could be. Okay. What else? What are the other drawbacks? Right. I said the wawas, the food options. A bunch of drunk people don't have a lot of places to eat. There's not that many 24-hour diners anymore. Wawa's are gone. There's like, I can count how many 7-Elevens are around the city. So the question is, I mean, if restaurant kitchens normally close around 10 p.m., do we have to keep staff on their feet to feed people to keep the kitchens open? I mean, again, I believe in capitalism. And one of the things that capitalism does is that if there's a need, if people are there and they want to buy a burger, someone smart is going to be like, I'm going to stay open so that I can sell people burgers. It seems to me like if it makes sense for restaurants, they will make a bet and they will stay open. And if it doesn't, they won't. And then people will be a little bit hungry and so be it. Yeah, I'm also looking into like what will food carts and food trucks do. Are they going to be able to be around serving food at 4? I don't know yet.

Any other issues that you see coming up with us? I mean, like I said, Philly complains a lot. And I know for sure that if people are stumbling into their Airbnbs or into the hotels at 4 a.m., someone's going to complain about the noise. That is definitely true. Someone will complain about the noise. Yes. That is that for sure will happen. This is really an experiment on not just the economics of Philly, but also. transit, permitting, sanitation, gig economy, residents trying to sleep, and post-event cleanup efforts. Who's cleaning up all the throw-up? Who's cleaning up the trash cans? That remains to be seen. And we'll see if... this experiment works. I mean, hey, we are the city that started the experiment of democracy. I guess we can see this experiment. I mean, it seems to me like if I were working for the city of Philadelphia or the state of Pennsylvania, if I were in Mayor Parker's office, I would be like, we're going to make Philly just shine. Everything's going to be awesome. And they're going to have people, the trash crews are going to be working a little bit overtime during this period so that. the streets look clean and the cops are going to be out at night checking in with your your nightmare to make sure that things are things are secure and there's nothing too rowdy going on with the fans of the yuruguay world cup team against the you know the fans of the south korean world cup team so I feel like it's a time to shine. And this keeping the bars open later will probably just help a little bit. I bet you don't have any major incidents from it. I think it's going to be looked back on as a success. That's my prediction. Oh, for sure. So one thing we like to ask people on your city could be better is what the lessons are for other cities. So what are the lessons of keeping the bars open late in Philadelphia? I mean, keeping in mind, of course, that hasn't happened yet. But what do you think the lessons are for other cities? For any other city listening, steal this idea from us to support small businesses, support your restaurants, your bar scene, bring life back into the nightlife in your city.

Philly is modeling how we can celebrate America without whitewashing its history and ignoring its cruel past. That's great. I did not know about on a judge day. That's awesome. The story of Washington, I read a little bit about this when I first heard this about the president's house a few months ago. And it's outrageous. It's even more outrageous than just that they had enslaved people living there. It's that he would literally cycle his slaves up from Virginia. to Philly and then back down to Virginia, because if they stayed a certain amount of time, they were eligible to be free. But as long as they didn't stay that long, they couldn't be petitioned for their freedom. And so it was just a very deliberate act on his part, which is depressing. I mean, I think I live in D.C. and, of course, we too are going to be at one of the centers of the celebration of the semi-Quincentennial. And it's being pretty heavily trumpified. There's going to be a UFC fight, I think, on the White House grounds. There's going to be some kind of car race through the streets of D.C. There else is going to be some cool stuff. There's a very cool sounding state fair. And it is, I am ambivalent because I don't, I find that, you know, his version of how to celebrate the country's history is probably not my version of how to celebrate the country's history. And I don't want to be too much part of it. On the other hand, this is a country we all share. It sounds like Philly is striking a good balance there. Yeah. And I would say, I think Philly just leans into. folks who have over the years done a lot of community organizing, folks who are not afraid to speak up. And we've been having these honest conversations from City Hall to North Philly, South Philly, all around town. Trinney Noree, host of CityCast Philly. Thanks for coming on Your CityCat Could Be Better. You can listen to Trinay every weekday on CityCast Philly. Thanks, David.

That's all for today's episode of Your City Could Be Better. I'm your host, David Plotz, our producers, where Lizzie Goldsmith, Priyanka Tilvey, Trinaneh Rhee, Abby Fritz, and Matt Katz. Our music is by Carl Christensen. If you are enjoying the show, or not tell your friends, rate the show, leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. We will be back next week for another conversation about how your city could be better. Bye-bye.